Finally weight loss products that work!…

“Yes I read the aversion therapy suggestion. They are wrong. With this the aim is to get the participant to associate something (eg the wheelchair) with an unpleasant stimulus (eg caloric). If that had been my aim (which of course it was not) then I would have done the caloric with you sitting in the wheelchair not lying on the couch. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aversion_therapy

Also I read one guy’s post about the extreme risks of caloric. Now certainly if someone has perforated ear drums then it should not be done. That is why I looked in your ears. However, in people with normal ear drums the risks are minimal.”

I hope that before you let anyone squirt anything or poke anything into your ear, you think about the possible consequences to that. Doing it wrong could cause sever damage, permanent vertigo, and then you’d be no closer to a cure than you were beforehand. No one wants to spend their life too dizzy to walk. It’s no fun. I know. I’ve been there before, and 4 surgeries later I still get dizzy for unexplained reasons. Please take care not to let that happen to you.

To my understanding, and correct me if i’m wrong cause i dont want to put words in your mouth. You’re much happier if the real life you is an able bodied person, but the mirror image or fantasy image or even the roleplaying image is a RAK. So, if you were to get thoughts of doing something dangerous to cause a real amputation of your right leg then you now know that its not really coming from you, its just a thought kinda floating around the ether trying to tempt you into doing something silly, or get you discouraged or depressed or some such. So, the best thing to do with these thoughts is just ignore them or tell them to bugger off ! Trust me, with a bit of persistence they get the message and do leave.

It really does bring a certain amount of freedom when you find out just exactly where you slot into this whole BIID/pretender/dev thing.

My pretending methods became more sophisticated over the years, and this helps me cope immensely.It is not, of course the real thing, I can not do it in public.

You do bring some interesting points, though. This is part of my identity, I SHOULD be a RAK, it is the correct image being reflected in a mirror but I some how think I would actually regret the real thing. Perhaps the permanance of surgery there is no going back. Pretending sessions, like all good things must end. But, I can always look forward to the next fun time.

Placebo effect, positive mental attitude, or as i have been calling it recently (for some unknown reason) Positive mental thinking ! erm.. PMT !!!?
Anyway, what ever you wanna call it, it has been proven to very beneficial especially in terms of pain relief, and as Claire said if it works thats a good thing. Unless your a slimey TV Evangalist trying to convince you that God’s really doing it and should thank Him by sending the evangalist all your money (hate those guys, but thats another story)

The interesting thing Claire said in your last post was being concerned it would take away part of your identity. And i’d say to you, (you may not wanna hear this, but) thats exactly the thing you should be finding out, Is it really a part of You, your nature, your character, the very fabric of your heart, or is it an aquired desire stemming from your childhood, or some sort of sexual fantasy, maybe even roleplay, or perhaps just a simple need to be different.
I’m sure somewhere you mentioned your desires come and go, sometimes really strong, sometimes hardly visible. I went through the same thing about 5 or 6 years ago, and it used to drive me nuts. One moment it felt like every single cell in my body was literaly screaming out “I gotta be a para RIGHT NOW” then ten mins later id be thinking “Nah, id hate it, i’d never cope, its a dumb-ass idea” It was a constant tug of war on the inside and they were using my brain as the rope, and, it was begining to fray.
So, as i mentioned in the purge thread, i purged, asked myself some seriously upfront questions, and didnt bullshit myself (thats actually harder to do than you might think) No excuses, no crap, no self justification for these fantasies or actions, just plain, hard, cold facts. Do i really want to spend the rest of my life paralysed from the waiste down ? never walk again ? no more regular sex ?, no bladder or bowel control ? possibilities of life threatening pressure sores ? rejection ? my life span being cut short by ten years or so ? etc. etc. Was i really willing to risk all this, just to experience the lifestyle i craved ? and here’s the real test, If i had a pill in front of me now that if swallowed would cause permanent paralysis at my desired level, no going back, no saying, erm.. i made a mistake can i spit it out and not be paralysed, a one way door, fin. Would i do it, would i really swallow it ?. I found it all too easy to say yes in my mind, in my fanasty, in my imagination, but, in reality ,the real deal, genuine, the real I AM ??.

Here’s what i found out, (sorry about the french), but i realised id be shit scared, id have some serious doubts, id be really hesitant, but, id still do it, i would be willing to take the risk and go through what need to be gone through. I realised once the paralysis had set in, it would be really difficult to adjust both physically and mentally, i’d probably be full of regrets, i would expect part of me would desperately not want to be permanently disabled and i’d have to deal with it and live with it. Basically all the emotions and adjustments a real para would face if for example they had an innocent accident, but with a whole load of extra crap thrown in due to the fact that i had chosen this of my own free will. Its not just fantasy anymore folks this is real life !!

So eventually i come to the point i’m trying to make. By being bare bones honest with myself i laid this desire on the line, kinda like sacrificed it, and just simply forced myself to accept the results whether they were in favour or against.

As a result, i’m now have relative peace with it, it does’nt drive me nuts anymore, i dont lose sleep over it, and i dont need to sit in my wheechair and pretend to keep the monkey on my back fed and watered.

So, by laying down part of my perceived identity, i actually found my real identity. The hard part is, “when the hell is my body gonna catch up and join the party” !!!

Placebo isn’t always based on wishful thinking btw, but rather expected results.

And anyway, what is wrong with “pacebo effect”? If it works, it works. Placebo effect can take away pain. If the pain’s gone, who cares?

If we wish to be “cured” we need to take a long hard close look at our own nature and basically be bare bones honest with ourselves as to what it is we want, need and what would truly benefit us and those around us in the long term.

On a personal note, i did this a few years back, and i was able to come to peace with myself and this desire, Yeah the frustration at times can be a bit of a kick in the nuts, but generally i can keep it all in check and it i never let it turn into depression. So for me it’s been 25yrs of turmoil, confusion, guilt and isolation, and 5yrs of relative calm with the occasional mad thought of jumping out the window j/k.

However, we’re all different, what might work for me, may not work for someone else. So i say do what ya gotta do and be happy and remember…. “Always Look On the Briiiight Siiide Of L…………” ugh you get the picture !

But to what ends, to find a cure and have these desires zapped from our brains ?, or change medical ethics so it becomes acceptable to have an operation to attain the disabilty we want. ?

My answer to that would be…both. For some people, surgery is not the answer. For others, it is. So, if the desire can be zapped from our brains, then that form of treatment should be available to those who want it. For others, surgery is the answer. And I firmly believe that a good understanding of just what BIID is and where it originates is going to get us closer to that goal than if it remains shrouded in mystery.

Let me ask, do you really think we would be wholeheartedly accepted into the incumbant disabled community ?

Nope, regardless of what happens in the areas of BIID treatment, we will never be “one of them”. Never said we would be. But we can’t be denied treatment because the disabled community mistrusts us! BIID *is* a real disability, it’s a mental disability, and we deserve treatment as much as anyone else does. How about smokers with lung cancer? They brought it upon themselves, and yet still society cares for their needs. And even then, there’s a difference. They didn’t need to smoke, but we can’t help our BIID.

Therefore i wholeheartedly agree that more research is needed on BIID and as you say more people need to stand up and be counted and put themselves forward for examination. However i gotta say this, i’ve been floating around this dev/pretender/wannbe internet scene for maybe 11 or 12 years now, and at times there have been plenty of willing volunteers, but theres never really been any great cooperation from the medical profession. Yeah its good that theres a couple of guys in California willing to step out of their comfort zone and look into this, and if they’re willing to pay for my flight from Uzbekistan i’ll be there. And yeah there are a few documentary makers interested in bring this to the publics attention(which may or may not be a good thing). But, a handful of people with very little influence and even less money aint gonna change anything. Yes, you can say “at least i’m doing something about it” But to what ends, to find a cure and have these desires zapped from our brains ?, or change medical ethics so it becomes acceptable to have an operation to attain the disabilty we want. ?

Sometimes i think we should look at the bigger picture of exactly what it is we want. For so many reasons i think it would actually be wrong for this “operation” to become a recognized and acceptable medical practice. I think we have to see what kind of an impact it would have on the disabled community, and also society in general. I’ll give you a recent example that was reported in the local paper from my home town. A disabled bloke was in the city centre when his electric wheelchair broke down, he asked for help from passersby, yet everyone ignored him, bad, yeah, but the poor chap was there for 8hrs before a bunch of teenagers eventually came to his rescue, and whats worse because he was there so long we had wet himself, not nice eh ! If that can happen to a genuinely disabled bloke, whats gonna happen if people know there maybe a chance the guy paid to be disabled. Dont we run the risk of society thinking “Why should i help, he wanted this let him sort it out himself”. Its not something thats going to endear us to the disabled community
Let me ask, do you really think we would be wholeheartedly accepted into the incumbant disabled community ? I would’nt want to have to make up stories about having an accident or something to try to “fake” a genuine disabilty just to be accepted into MY community.

I think i better stop here coz this turned out to be a much bigger reply than i had expected. Maybe i’ll start a thread and go into the issues mentioned above in more detail.

As for the suggestion that it’s aversion therapy, while the procedure was indeed unpleasant, that really is not the point with VCS. If you google this (which I did before participating) you can find out that the procedure actually stimulates certain areas of the brain that, among other things, process body image. They’ve done studies with VCS on phantom pain, asomatognosia (google that one!), somatoparaphrenia as already mentioned, and more. Brain imaging scans clearly show this. There is enough research on VCS available on the Internet to make it obvious to even laypeople like ourselves that it is more complex than “aversion therapy”.

And there is no parade to rain on. I just participated in the study in order to promote BIID research, and I’m not cured, and didn’t hope or expect to be. I knew *well* beforehand that VCS on people with somatoparaphrenia is only effective for 24 hours. More people are needed in order to find out more about BIID, and *then* when we know more, perhaps a treatment can be developed or they’ll finally break down and do surgery on us. I did it in the interest of knowledge, not in the hopes of fiding a cure.

I only know about the imbalence thing from my youth going to the swimming pool. I always got water trapped in my ear whenever i went, in time this would seep into the inner ear and when it did i could bearly stand up. Which probably explains why i aint been to the swimming baths for over 20 years :)

Will

I may not be the sharpest tool in the box, (and i may be about to prove it) but it does sounds like some form of aversion therapy.
Surely injecting fluid into the inner ear will cause a widespread imbalence within your body, and its an unpleasent experience, coupled with the questions being asked, an association is being made in your subconcious i.e thinking/talking about being paralyzed = bad sickly feeling, me no like, me no do it.
It’s a bit like Pavlovs dog in reverse, when the dog presses the button a buzzer sounds and it gets fed, so the dog gets happy when it presses the button and hears the buzzer coz it knows something good’s gonna happen. If you were to hit the dog with a baseball bat each time the button was pressed, it wouldnt be such a happy dog, and you can bet your bottom dollar it would soon learn not to press the button

I really don’t wanna rain on your parade Claire, but this does sound like a form of brain washing to me. Having said that it’s probably me not fully understanding the whole proceedure. I have to admit i bearly understood a word of the intial abstract by the two doctors. And ultimately, if it’s worked or even just helped you, and you feel you’re beginning to find peace in your mind, then who am i to knock it. Best of luck

(BTW i DO live in Uzbekistan(almost) and i REALLY cant afford the plane ticket).

Will