transabled.org

There’s actually elitism in the transgender community:

Postoperative transsexuals are “better” than pre-operative people which are “better” than non-operative transsexuals.

Transsexuals are “better” than crossdressers which are “better” than transvestites.

Young transsexuals are “better” than those that transition in their 40s or later.

There’s elitism in every community, I think. In the Deaf community those who went to schools for the deaf are “better” than those that go to mainstram schools. Hard of hearing people are “less than” people born deaf and so on.

We’re not lucky to live in a world where everyone is equal. The only thing we can do is to persevere and continue to educate and say that we’re all equal and that no one is better or worse than anyone else.

Marie, I understand that there are hierarchies everywhere, and while it’s a bitch, it’s not as much a problem as what I describe here. What I describe would be more aptly compared to a MtF trannie telling a FtM trannie that they aren’t a true transsexual because they need to switch to a male body instead of to a female body.

Oh indeed! It’s terrible for anyone to say that you’re not “good enough”. But there’s not much we can do aside from continuing to educate and say “No that isn’t right, we are the same.”

It’s funny that you use the phrase “true transsexual.” Up until the 1970s (I think) that phrase was only applied to transsexuals that transitioned when young which implied that those who transitioned when they were older were somehow “false.” That was an institutional term and stopped being used when they realised that just because I started transition at 21 doesn’t mean I’m different from the person who does it at 12 or 70. Wouldn’t it be nice if we could make a similar transition with BIID?

I am an amputee wannabe and I absolutely agree.
I don’t understand why everyone focuses on amputees and that agervates me because one of my best friends is a para wannabe and it’s like she is getting ignored. I don’t understand why they focus on one “symptom” of BIID.

Thanks Adam, glad you feel that way.

It boggles the mind, at least mine. It seems to me that a broader definition of BIID would be more likely to inspire the medical profession to try out elective surgery on at least one segment of people with BIID. Those most likely first in line would be the amputee wannabes. If true, they are only hurting their own chances. Besides, don’t we all have this desire in common? It is hard enough to gain any sympathy from society in general; we basically only have ourselves. I don’t expect many outside our little community to accept that I want to become a paraplegic; therefore, I at least hope that others with different types (?) of BIID can see my point of view! Diversity is fine, division is not.
Thank you Sean for working to include the whole range of those with BIID.

I think this demonstates the limited understanding some people have of their own “condition”. I think with many people the level of understanding goes no further than “I see myself with no legs”. The need to have legs or any other part that doesn’t work is much more complex an idea. In fact an amputee BIID has something they dont want a para BIID has something he /she does want.. a disability ( I mean an impairment but this isnt the place for that debate!). I sense in many a view that the successful amputee has achieved “perfection” and a successful para / blind /deaf / MS would have (in ther eyes) become very “imperfect”.

Of course this doesn’t apply to all and there are thoughtful accepting people out there but they seem rarer than you might expect.

P

P, could you elaborate on this thought? I’m not sure I follow what you’re trying to say…

Sometimes even I am not sure what I mean!

I just feel that disablism (or ableism if you like)seems to to be very prominent in amputee biid.

I think the very idea of a non functioning limb is even worse in their eyes than non amputation. There is a sense that like many real (not by choice) amputees in the wider world they look down on other disabilities. Perhaps the idealism of a specific body type engenders disgust at any other with the normal body seen as bad but the disabled body seen as even worse unless the disabled body meets the “ideal”.

This still makes little sense !

P

Ahh, yes, I get you. That makes sense, actually. Amputees don’t view themselves as people with disabilities (generalising here). So if you are an amputee wannabe, viewing yourself as an amputee isn’t viewing yourself with a disability. TO imagine paraplegia, which *is* clearly a disability, then, it must be different. Or some such. :)

I couldn’t have said it better myself….

And I tried TWICE!

P

As an amputee ‘wannabe’, I must say that I wholeheartedly agree with this assessment of the situation. It’s extremely frustrating to see such divisiveness within an already marginalised community. The fact is that we all have something in common: a self-image that does not correlate to the physical condition ofr our bodies.

From where I sit, it would seem that we should all be understanding of each other’s needs, rather than arguing over whose needs are more or less real or valid. I see no substantive difference between feeling that four limbs on one’s body is too many (amp wannabe), versus feeling that five standard senses is too many (deaf or blind wannabe), versus the feeling that a nervous system laden with the standard complement of myelin is too much. To some extent, I’d even consider transsexuality to be in a similar category, as it’s a case of a fundamental aspect of one’s body being out of alignment with self-image, causing intolerable levels of discomfort.

Are we really so different from each other? Are we even significantly different from one who grows tired of being blonde, and dyes her hair red? Or one who feels inadequate with a B-cup, and gets her breasts augmented through plastic surgery? To my mind, the answer is: “Not really”.

I would even argue that our need to get rid of extra senses/abilities/limbs/whatever is very similar to the condition of those who face the opposite condition: I see the sighted person who would prefer to be blind as being in a similar situation to the blind one who wishes to see; the one who feels that four limbs are too many is similar to one who feels that their own three (or fewer) is too few. The difference is that in the opposite cases, society is intent upon doing everything it can to assist those people to achieve as close to the desired state as possible. For example, someone with profound hearing loss who wants to hear can relatively easily get cochlear implants or some other such hearing aid devices; yet the deaf wannabe is offered no assistance by society, and is stuck improvising. This imbalance extends even further, but I’ve probably rambled long enough for now.

Hi my name is Bridgette I,m a crossdresser right now but some day I would love to have a sex change.I,m also a leg amputee wannabe,I love dressing and pretending to be and amputee but thats not good enough any more.I want to be a real woman some day with one leg my right leg off about mid thigh or higher. I would like to talk to any other cd,s with this problem or people I can talk to I,m running out of time I,m a female in a male body and I hate having two legs I need to have my right leg cut off.Bridgette

i’m a double amputee with ny right arm barely habgibg in there I don;t understaand your problem. I;d like to talk to you. you need it

Hello Alvi,

What is it you do not understand? You don’t understand BIID? Or why it is a problem? Please tell me.

hi i am 47 yrs old,i have wanted to be a double above knee amputee most of my life.i am too embarrased to tell my family or friends.sometimes i think i am going mad,the feelings are so strong.i so much want to be an amputee bt dont want to die trying.i dont know what to do

I am a life-long cross dresser and devotee and amputee wannabe. Some times I wonder if there is any room there for the real me. Whoever that is.

I really feel that there ought to be no exclusions regarding BIID since it all comes down to strong feelings about the integrity of one’s birth body. When you add CD to it, it gets really interesting but, still, isn’t that all about not being happy with my body as it is? I do not see where there is much a big deal about what kind of change you want; rather, the issue is that you want a change at all. Anything else goes into the category of fantasy.

I think most of this “elitism” about amputation BIID is just lack of knowledge. Don’t bitch about it, but inform people. Participate in BIID surveys. Tell the researchers that it isn’t just about amputation. Don’t antagonize researchers about it. Educate them.

As a former amputation wannabe (now a happy amputee), I am doing what I can to spread this information. Diversity is what makes the world worth living in. That includes BIID, and different varieties of BIID too.

Dan, with all due respect, the elitism, and rejection, in the BIID community coming from amputee wannabe is NOT just lack of knowledge. Granted, things are changing and improving, but my experience of ostracism is not unusual.

I don’t antagonise researchers. I do educate them. Heck, I even managed to get Dr. First to conduct a study specifically on the topic of non-amputee BIID. I spent several hours in a meeting with Dr. Ryan to inform him of same.

I *have* participated in BIID surveys. Repeatedly. I have asked, prompted, begged, cajoled, and pushed other people to participate in surveys. I will continue to participate in surveys - if they aren’t amputee-centric.

If a survey is amputee-centric, i will contact the researcher and inform them that I’d like to answer their survey, but can’t because of the format of the questions.

Someone researching a topic really ought to do a literature review before writing about that topic, or preparing for a study. As I *have* done such review, and read pretty much all that is available on the topic, I can tell you that there is enough information out there about non-amputee BIID that someone devising a survey properly would leave the “required condition” open ended, or have an “other” box, rather than limiting to “which limb do you need amputated”.

The close ended questions of this type will NEVER allow for better understanding of BIID. The very shape of the question limits the understanding of the condition. A bit like asking “does your car have 4 or 5 speed?”. Completely eliminate possibilities of automatic, 6 speed, “three on a T”, etc.

We must increase the BIID knowledge, absolutely. No doubt about it. But at the same time, I’m not going to stay mum about this.

I am going out of my mind with BIID. I cannot stand it any longer. When I see questionnaires that do not even give paralysis as an option after all these years (see date of this post) I see red.

When I see “an ex-wannabe (now a happy amputee)” I am pleased for you but it almost seems like it’s smug and it drives another nail into my coffin.

And finally, when the very man I thought was going to save me says “You’re not normal, because you don’t want BOTH legs paralysed” you can perhaps understand why I rant sometimes.

@Peter: Well, there you have it. It’s official. You’re not normal. ;o(

That’s it! Quite right. It was starring me in the face for years and I didn’t see it!

It is so comforting to know that there is now a name for my condition; Not Normal.
This could open up a whole new world to me.

I just hope you’ll still accept me here, you ‘normal’ bilateral guys.

At least you’ve brought a smile back to my face dear Chloe :)