transabled.org

Hello Sean,

As fab matters is my blog and I am the author of the post you quote, I feel I should respond to you.

The answers you supplied to my (rhetorical) questions are informative, and I appreciate the effort you have put into articulating your position. But I do want to mention that my primary concern is with transgenderism (and its implications for women and feminism). The sole reason I drew an analogy to transableism was to underscore the ways transgender activists are behaving towards women and feminists – in what was essentially a rhetorical exercise.

I realize that transableism is a very personal issue for you, so I understand your need to clarify yourself in light of my post. I do not believe that transableism represents as great a threat to disability activists and disabled people as transgender activists do to women and feminists – mainly because society has far more sympathy for people who wish to change genders than for people who wish to be disabled.

@Miska, thank you for taking the time to read the post. I was going to let you know about it, but I guess you already saw it :D

I hear what you are saying. That said, you’ll forgive me I hope, but I find it offensive to be used as a rethorical argument against someone else.

And the idea that we “wish” to be disabled undermines the devastating effects of having BIID. You make it sound like it’s a fancy, which it is not.

Very interesting response. I agree with you that mental illness is indeed a disability and should be recognized as such.

I do wonder how much you’ve read about privilege, oppression, and power, though. You don’t deny being privileged over physically disabled people, which I appreciate, but you’re definitely oppressing people, even if you don’t *mean* to. Men (and especially white men) are raised and trained by society to oppress women and less privileged people a million different ways, big and small, without ever noticing it. It’s not something you can correct or even see until you really educate yourself and start to pay attention.

@Joce, everyone oppresses someone in one way or another. That’s how it goes. Even the most educated person about oppression does it. To accuse me of being an oppressor merely because I am a man seems a bit of a scattergun approach. Mind you, I’m not arguing the toss.

Your assumption I am a *white* man is, in itself, oppressive. The name you see here may not be my real name. I could very well come from First Nations heritage. My tribe could in fact be a matriarchal society… Just sayin’.

As for my readings on privilege, oppression and power… Without justifying myself to you, or anyone else, let’s just say that I have done enough studies in that area (admitedly focusing mainly on disability issues) to hold my own with many disability scholars.

The overall feeling I got from Miska’s questions you quoted was fear, which is the usual basis of anger.

Here’s a possible explanation for

“Some of the most violent and vilest attacks on me, as a transabled individual, have come from transsexuals.”

In my limited awareness of the relevant history, trans people have made terrific strides in the past 40-50 years, so that transitioning these days is a lot less unusual, and a lot less unacceptable, than it used to be. So now they see this transablism movement budding, and they are terrified that the acceptability of transsexualism might be again called into question. They do not want any line of inquiry to push their pendulum back the other way. Thus, they strenuously distance themselves from, and focus their well-honed sense of group-level self-defense on, our movement and its main proponents.

“To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail.”

That’s what “through a feminist lens” means.

I never said you were a white man, I said white men are trained from birth to be the most oppressive. And no, you could not be from a “matriarchal” society because such a thing does not exist anywhere in the world.

And I know there are multiple oppressions, and I would never claim to be free of my own white privilege, middle-class privilege, able-bodied privilege, thin privilege, etc. Privileges and oppressions are cumulative and intersecting.

“To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail.”

That’s what “through a feminist lens” means.”

Yep. My blog is designed with a very specific intention in mind – to apply a feminist analysis to transgender politics. So naturally, it contains feminist analysis. That’s the whole point.

Sean:

I responded to a comment you left, and asked this question -

“You mention pharmacotherapy – Is there any serious research being done into pharmacological treatment? And if there was an effective treatment would you (and the members of your community) still campaign for surgery to be made available as an alternative option?”

I am really interested in the answer. I realize that my blog probably feels quite hostile to you, so I understand if you don’t feel comfortable answering me there. But I would really appreciate it if you could clarify your position regarding this.

Thanks,

Miska.

@Miska, you ask good questions. It is late here, and I cannot do justice to your question. I will respond tomorrow.

Looking at the world through one lens is something I find a bit boring, because the outcome is clear even before you look… One doesn’t really LOOK, but search for things that fit into one’s prejudices.

You wrote: “I said white men are trained from birth to be the most oppressive.”

I would say that is another big prejudice and generalisation. Generalisations don’t solve any problem, they are the problem, and theories of this kind lead nowhere.

I am gay and I have been oppressed to some extent. And I am a white man.

@Joce Claire: I visited your website and have to admit to being a bit shocked regarding the oppressive nature of your writing. You give the impression of attempting to impose your socially constructed gender binary system on all of humanity. I and many other hermaphrodites find this both offensive and oppressive. You don’t even say what you mean by the words “man” and “woman”, yet you use the words freely as if such binary language is able to change the reality of the continuum. You talk about being raised as a girl or raised as a boy as if those are the only two options. They are not. Just talk to anyone with 5alpha-reductase deficiency.

You object to the term “feminist men”. Do you object to the term “feminist hermaphrodites?” I have long considered myself a feminist. Am I therefore objectionable to you.

Do you have first hand knowledge of how men in our culture are oppressed? As a hermaphrodite I have spent part of my life presenting as androgynous, part presenting as a man, and part presenting as a woman. My personal experience is that hermaphrodites are more oppressed than men, and men are more oppressed than women. It is often a matter of perspective. As you know, there is a large segment of feminist scholarship supporting the contention that in our society men are more oppressed than women. My first hand experience supports this hypothesis.

We also seem to be reading different anthropological sources. I am very wary of people who say things like “such a thing does not exist anywhere in the world”. I am reminded of the coelacanth.

In general I would have to agree with Phil. Wisdom and understanding come by looking at things from many different points of view.

It is interesting how different elements of one’s life intersect; e.g. gender oppression and BIID.

The bail locks and drop locks on KAFOs each have their own advantages and disadvantages. One of the reasons I like a bail lock for my left leg brace is that it can be readily operated with my imaginary stump where I actually have a left hand. My impression is that drop locks require more dexterity.

A disadvantage of a bail lock is that the lever takes up some room behind the knee. None of my pants works with my leg brace. Fortunately I’m a woman, so I can wear skirts all the time. What is a man with a left hand amputation and a left leg brace supposed to do? I suppose there are extremely baggy trousers, but that’s an ugly solution in my opinion.

Restriction of acceptable clothing is one of the many ways in which men are more oppressed than women in our society. I have friends, who are unambiguously male in every respect, who are heterosexual, who are not cross-dressers, who have no desire to appear female; and yet prefer to wear dresses, because they are more comfortable. There is a huge social sanction against such behaviour in our society, in distinct contrast with the liberty which is granted to women.

My friends resort to wearing dresses made for men from other cultures, such as India, where such behaviour is entirely asseptable.

The fight against the oppression of women is inseparable from the fight against the oppression of men. Try Marge Piercy’s “Woman on the Edge of Time” for excellent feminist fiction addressing this topic.

Chloe, strictly speaking, it isn’t possible for you to have (personally) experienced that “hermaphrodites are more oppressed than men,” or that any other group is more oppressed than any other group, as you are only one person. When it comes to oppression of whole groups of people, that can only be verified on a large scale. As an individual, there are a large number of factors that affect how you were treated, and some of them may have had nothing to do with gendered oppression.

I cannot imagine what would move you to state that which, (of men or women) is oppressed more is “often” a matter of perspective. In most places in the world, it is glaringly obvious that women are oppressed more, so Are you restricting your analysis to places like the U.S. and Western Europe (it isn’t clear what society you are referring to when you use the phrase “in our society”)?

Hello Heaven,

I am in agreement with you. Thank you for bringing attention to my overly sloppy use of language. Indeed, by definition, my personal experience refers only to myself rather than to a group. Of course you are correct in saying that how I perceive I am treated is dependent on more variables than gendered oppression alone.

My use of “our society” is particularly egregious. I have lived only in the U.S. and Western Europe, so that is my point of reference. I have the impression that most people visiting this site are from those or closely related cultures. However, that is not an excuse. I apologise for my inappropriately exclusive use of language. I did not intend my comments to be globally applicable.

Certainly, there are other places in the world where the situation is radically different. With regard to my mention of clothing, there are countries where men are allowed to wear dresses yet women are flogged for wearing pants.

Regarding perspective, the point I wish to make is that sometimes it does indeed depend upon the individual as to whether they are or are not bothered by a particular oppressive rule of their society. One thing to remember is that ALL groups are oppressed: women, lesbians, people with disabilities, hermaphrodites, ethnic groups, people with BIID, and yes, white males too. The cluster of oppressive rules is different for different groups, although there may be some overlap. No one group should be making assumptions about the nature of the oppression of a different group. One always has to ask.

There are two fallacies resulting from the lack of asking that often come up on this website. One is that many able bodied people perceive that PWDs have an appalling quality of life. This is generally not how PWDs see themselves. The thinking error occurs because one group is merely guessing about another group, without making any effort to find out the real information. The same thinking error sometimes happens when people who do not have BIID come to this website. Some of them make assertions about BIID from the outside, instead of simply asking *us* what it’s like.

I spent a good deal of time in the 1980s participating in feminist groups. I am very thankful to have been fully welcomed into those womens’ spaces, which I very much needed, despite my being completely open about being a hermaphrodite. One thing I noticed as individuals matured was a shift in their perspective. Feminists often start out in an angry phase where they make assumptions about other groups. I know what it’s like. I’ve been there. Feminist scholarship regarding the oppression of men dates at least as far back as the early 1970s to the best of my recollection, but it seems to be rediscovered as each generation matures. Eventually one discovers that the best way to find out what it’s like to be a man is to ask. Making assumptions from the outside gets one nowhere. I’m not saying it’s an easy task. One of the common oppressions of men is that they are socialised into not talking about their feelings. However, it is indeed possible to get honest answers provided that the approach is not antagonistic.

I had one of those “aha” moments some years ago when I was seeing a psychotherapist about intersex related issues. She pointed out to me that while men and women inhabit different boxes of oppression (in the U.S.), the box for women is bigger. There is more room to move about.

I can’t leave the issue of gender oppression without mentioning the topic of genital cutting without informed consent. In some countries such female genital cutting is commonplace. The hypocrisy of groups in the U.S. working against this outrages me. I have not seen a single footnote about the same horrendous practice commonly being done to hermaphrodites in their own country. This is another example of an oppression targeted primarily against men in this country (U.S.). The majority of ambiguous infant genitalia surgically altered without consent is in the female direction. Consequently the largest group of pissed off hermaphrodites are men who had their penises chopped off when they were babies. Yet we can’t get surgery for BIID!!!

Thanks for your input, Heaven. I like your blog too. Good stuff.

@ Joce
While the numbers may be limited, there are still a few matriarchal societies left in the world, most notably Sumatra and some regions of China.

wow. i’m super confused. how on earth could someone wish to be a parapalegic and how on earth does that relate to being transgendered. wonders never cease at the amazing things people will think of

and I suppose i’m going to be told that i have some sort of privilege because i don’t get it. some non-biid privilege or something.

baffled

Grace asks:

how on earth could someone wish to be a parapalegic

The need (note, not the wish) to be paraplegic is one of several manifestations of Body Integrity Identity Disorder (BIID). Other manifestations take the shape of needing to be an amputee, or blind, or deaf, or other physical impairments. It is weird. But it is.

how on earth does that relate to being transgendered

I don’t believe there is a direct relationship between BIID and GID. But there are more similarities in terms of lived experiences than there are differences. Feeling ill at ease in one’s own body, being rejected by family, being ostracised by society, early (4-5 years old) manifestation, feelings of guilt, shame, embarassement, and the list goes on.

@grace, it looks like you didn’t take much time to read anything on this site – your questions have been answered multiple times. Do take some time to read and try and understand. Thank you.

Grace says “Wonders never cease at the amazing things people will think of.” I don’t have the impression that I “thought” of having BIID any more than I thought of being intersexed. They are both expressions of the beautiful diversity inherent in the nature of being human. It does take a certain maturity to get beyond feeling that everyone on the planet is supposed to be just like oneself. Getting beyond that insecurity and truly celebrating our differences is a joy indeed.