transabled.org

Sorry this got so long. ;)

Don’t be sorry, silly :) It’s good, else I wouldn’t have published it

mY comments on being Transexual and/or transabled

I am a M 2 F pre op transexual who in addition to always wanting to be a female I have always wanted to be disabled physically ie; a usless or amputated leg I find the fascination of being a good looking disabled woman to be so strong I get frustrated some times when I realise what would be entailed in achieving this. I have purchased and wear a leg brace to help my feelings but I want more

Have to admit that Standards of Care for transabled people would probably be good, but they would most certainly begin the way treatment for us transfolk began in the early 20th century: either lock it up, lobotomize it, or shun it. It took many years for Harry Benjamin and his colleagues to come up with standards that were comprehensive. We all have ideals, but I know of many, many doctors who feel that transsexual surgery is harmful, and even I think that making oneself a paraplegic through surgery is somewhat questionable in the sense that it creates a significant change in a person’s ability to live a fully independent life–I always worry that I will be a burden to my family. I would hate that, and if I were to end up disabled (I really hate that word), I am sure my family would take care of me as best they could. But let’s face it, folks, it’s not about being happy in this country. I can’t have surgery unless someone else approves of my choices, and even though it’s my body, I have no control over it at all. Unfair or not, it’s truth. For now, at least.

Hi Eric,

It is not uncommon for transsexuals to be disowned by their families and friends when they say it’s finally time to transition.

We all know that it’s a risk and we all take it because aligning our bodies and minds is worth it. (Of course those that never transition could believe that for them it is *NOT* worth the risk!)

I would be more worried about being disowned or divorced than being a burden.

Have to admit that Standards of Care for transabled people would probably be good, but they would most certainly begin the way treatment for us transfolk began in the early 20th century: either lock it up, lobotomize it, or shun it.

This is part of the reason why I’m so adverse to the idea of having BIID officially classified as a mental illness – despite the advances in understanding of the mind, and human behaviour, this is STILL the prevailing response of the MH professional community to anything new.

While I’d agree that there are many issues with the way mental health professionals handle many conditions, I think that there *has* been some advances in thinking and I don’t believe that the lock-up/lobotomize/shun combos are on the horizon.

We must get our foot in the door, somehow. Then readjust. I don’t believe that labelling BIID as a mental illness at this point would be such a negative thing.

Trans-maybe’abled’ism ?
I read recently in a newspaper a article ..about a story of a 3 year old boy who wanted to change his gender.
It was wierd ..thinking back..that something like this can start so young ? The story continued and eventually the boy turned 5yrs of age,and then began wearing girls clothes..and the parents eventually supported this change.
The attraction for boy child to be like his mother ..isn’t always a indication …that this person will want a sex change later in life ? Yet I can’t help but thinking ..that wanting to wear braces started for me when I was around 7 years old.
I wondered..
Is there a genitic code..encrypted into some peoples minds to be a certian way(so soon after they are born ) it becomes evident in many cases of sex change and wannabe needs ..that this developes from early childhood..?
If this is true ..what does this mean about human evolution ?
I dis-agree in this case that BIID should be labeled as a mental disease..unless it leads one into very self destructive action’s ?
Yet in the newspaper article ..what got the parents attention was that thier 3 year old boy tried to cut his penis off with apiar of sizzors !
The fact that self destructive forces came into play at 3 years old ..in order to have a differant body image ..was really wierd .
After the parents agreed to let the boy wear girls clothes..he agreed not to cut off his penis.
Hmmmm..is this the same for wannabes ?
I am a maybe ‘wannabe’ in that the idea of doing anything self destructive ..is a maybe .
I then wondered (after reading the article)how sexuality becomes connected to being dis-abled..when one ‘knows’ at a such a early stage of life ..that he or she shall be another gender..or be dis-abled in some way..?
I think medical science needs to study this ..without making judgements aganist people who are effected by these needs .
Also..I am very sure ..my upcoming trip into eastern Europe will result in me finding a doctor to do a ”Femoral nerve” surgey..?
The question here is ..how much I really want to get this done ? In the meantime ..I am feeling(after my trip to India last Dec.) less effected by the need to be crippled…and wear braces .
I am getting out a lot more ..without my leg braces..I guess I am in a sort of ‘remission’ from wannabeism..and living now in maybeism ?
In a few weeks I will get a surgey..to temporarily paralyize me legs ..I want to finally experiance how it would be to really need to be in braces..
Yet..since this experiance will only be a few short hours…it will be enough ?
I think there has to be a new term for people like me..its called trans-maybe’abled-ism ..
Oh..well

Pardon me for being the token outsider here, but I was interested and wanted to comment.
I have been a wheelchair-user since the age of 8 due to a congenital SCI. The reason why I wanted to comment was in response to two things in this article and the comments afterwards. I’ve never heard of transabledism, and while I applaud your efforts to raise the profile and gain understanding, this confuses me.

1) Marie mentions an example of a transabled condition: “For example a person may have an identity of someone that is paralysed,” which made me wonder – what exactly do people believe is the “identity” of someone who is paralyzed? While certain generalizations can be made about gender identities relating to the characteristics of owning certain genitals, the social roles played by such ownership, etc, people with paralysis are not such a homogeneous group – there is more that separates us than we have in common.

2) The point is repeatedly made that transabledism does not place any burden on society, and harms nobody… I have to take issue with this, given the idea of going to surgical methods to achieve true transability. Perhaps many forms will have no effect on anyone else – I can imagine that being deaf would not seriously harm anyone else, or learning disabled, for example. However, certain types of disability can and will place extra burden on social systems, resources and probably family and friends that wouldn’t have been there otherwise. Following this to the end result, if someone were to pay a surgeon to have their spine damaged at T12, that person would require regular physical therapy, medical visits, drugs, diagnostics, and medical equipment to sustain and protect their health. None of these would be optional in this event… and seem a really high price to pay (both physically and socially) for achieving the “TA goal.” All of these things are enormously expensive and are borne by either the individual themselves, the public health system, or private health insurance. Since most hospitals, clinics, doctors and nurses are government subsidized in some way (enormously in Canada and the UK), the cost to the government would be huge.

I do not mean to judge, I am just very confused at this prospect.

The question is not whether there is a cost or not – obviously there is a cost to it – but whether the cost of providing the treatment outweighs the cost of NOT doing it. In many cases, the costs incurred by depriving the BIID patient of proper treatment (i.e. physical ‘damage’ to the body) include immense expenses in therapy, mood-control drugs, and, in many cases, a suboptimal level (or complete lack) of productivity – all of which can be offset by the treatment. Yes, those costs would be exchanged for the cost of surgery, rehabilitation, and support, but a primary difference is that the former set of costs are completely wasted, whereas the latter set are most frequently effective (although I do yield that the population of those who have been successful at receiving these treatments is very limited).

Further, we must remember that cost is measured on more axes than just financial – if that were the only ‘cost’ that counts, we would have neither life-support nor comfort measures for terminally ill patients. Even in the cases where the financial cost of treating BIID properly clearly outweighs the financial cost of withholding such treatment, there is the matter of quality of life to be considered. It leads down a dangerous path if we begin denying effective treatments to provide quality of life for patients simply on the basis of financial cost.

First i ask you to excuse my english – it’s not my native language.

I’m a M2F post-op transsexual, so i can understand some of the discussed aspects very well. Nevertheless a had the requiring to add some more comments.

Proposing that there are also physical reasons that a person will become transabled, i would expect a much less percentage of transabled than transsexual persons. At the beginning of a pregnancy the foetus is a neutrum and has to change to female or male – it has not to change from disabled to healthy, it has “only” to grow. The first process bears more possibilities that
something can go wrong than the second.

Most transsexual persons (there are also variants) like to change from one healthy state to another. My wish was clearly to get rid of this male body and that ugly thing between my legs. But – i would also like to have the regular organs of a woman and the possibility to become pregnant. Transposed to your situation i wouldn’t get rid of my legs, i would like to have two other legs.

If there is no possibility for a successfull therapy, i would also agree to medical measures. With this agreement i would also put a question for discussion: “Has there to be a border? What surgeries are allowed? Are ultimate “solutions” possible?”

Such surgeries could also be paid from the health insurance, but i would say no to a disability pension.

Hello Katja,

You make interesting points and ask difficult questions :)

What surgeries should be allowed? I’m not sure. There is a surgeon that apparently does black market amputations out of Asia, but refuses to amputate both legs because “it’s too extreme” and refuses to do paraplegia for the same reason. Yet, we know that paraplegics can lead long, healthy and productive lives. I also know many vent dependent quadriplegic who are leading long, healthy and productive lives, so who am I to say that someone’s request to be come vent dependent and quadriplegic is not appropriate, or too extreme? In the end, I think it comes down to the ability for independence (whichever form that takes), long term health, and the ability to be productive.

As for disability pensions… I tend to agree that one shouldn’t be allowed to self injure, then get on benefits. OTOH, the impact of BIID on people is such that some people who have BIID and depression are on benefits *now*, without their required impairment.

Clearly, this is not what nature intended. The comment that surgeries etc. ought to be performed as long as the person is consenting and is not harming others is not only void of reasoning but selfish. Others ARE affected: partners, families, society (who will bear the burden of caring for someone who has inflicted a deficit in his/her functioning and ability to care for one’s self). As a therapist, I encourage all who have these feelings to go much deeper as to the reasons for these desires, and focus on coping with the negative thoughts and keep yourself safe from harm. This is not normal and to give into the impulse to harm self (as in suicide) is doing yourself and your loved ones and society a grave disservice. And remember, you may come to a day where you deeply regret any harm you did to yourself. Be logical: you were born whole for a reason, to enable you to live life to its fullest without obstacles. Ask your self how you benefit from harming yourself. Don’t settle for being comfortable now with the new body image. Go past that; in what specific ways will you benefit. That is what you need to focus on and analyse and get through.

Margaret

Margaret I sincerely hope you never give “therapy” to a transsexual. That line of thinking has caused nothing but hurt. “Oh just get over it! LOL!”

There’s a reason the success rate for genital reassignment surgery is very high: Because it works. Hiding doesn’t, ignoring it doesn’t. Because guess what? When there’s no other escape the person’s suicide will affect people more than “changing gender”. Waiting 20 years before coming out having spent the time “tring to cope with the negative thoughts” it affects the wife and children and friends. Dealing with GID and BIID early will prevent both suicide and other people from having to deal with someone else’s needs if they don’t want to.

We are born “whole” as we are with our selfidentifications and problems. Why should we deny our own brain chemistry and basic needs? Seems like obnoxious the religious nonsense (“How dare you secondguess god’s plan?”) zealots spew forth when they don’t approve with someone else’s personal choices in life.

Don’t take this comment as a flame (even though it is): I vehemently disagree with the aversion therapy people preach towards us. Please post again! Dissenting views are good to read.

Margaret, thanks for your comments. While what you say seems reasonable at first glance, it was spoken like someone who has no understanding of BIID, has never tried to counsel someone with BIID and who has done absolutely no research on BIID. It’s been said time and time again in the formal research done on BIID (which clearly you haven’t read) – talk therapy DOES NOT WORK. It doesn’t touch BIID. And as for regretting harm we’ve done ourselves, again the overwhelming anecdotal evidence (which you also clearly haven’t researched) from those who have been able to achieve their desired disability is satisfaction with the results and and end to the torment of BIID – and that the disability caused is more than a fair exchange for peace of mind. And as for affecting others such as our families and society…they ARE already affected by our depression, obsession, and frustration…the effects of mental illness. And I would argue that the psychological effects of BIID are more devastating to all concerned than physical disability is.

It’s much easier for someone on the outside – particularly one who is in a position of authority and control – to simply express how they wish the world worked, and simply dismiss the arguments of those with actual experience, when those arguments contradict the worldview of the academic theorist. It becomes even easier for those experiences to be officially dismissed when those espousing them can be categorised as ‘mentally ill’, which is a carte blanche for society to dismiss their beliefs, feelings, needs, and experiences as irrelevant.

As for the question of ‘what nature intended’, it is fairly clear that nature intended for species to cull their weakest members, rather than diverting resources from the most fit to survive to those who need assistance. However, that is one of the differences between civilized societies and the wilds: we, as an intelligent species, are capable of using our cognitive functions, as well as our sense of compassion, to deviate from nature’s intentions at times. As such, any argument based on those intentions fails miserably.

"it was spoken like someone who has no understanding of BIID, has never tried to counsel someone with BIID and who has done absolutely no research on BIID."

This seems to indeed be the case. It pays for people to read a bit more about BIID before making sweeping judgements. http://biid-info.org is a good starting point to find research papers and articles about BIID.

As an aside, Margaret doesn’t specify which type of therapist she is. Could be she’s not a psycho-therapist at all, maybe she’s a physical therapist or occupational therapist…

Maybe a massage therapist. What astounds me, is the condescending reactions to BIID and our feelings by people who are supposed to be enlightened professionals! One would think the profession has learned from its past mistakes eg. how transgender issues were “dealt with” 70 years ago. If it does not fit the mold their brain was forced into during 8 years of university, then it gets ‘WHACKO-HANDLE WITH CAUTION’ stamped onto it. Makes me wonder what little minds have gleefully nailed framed diplomas onto their office walls.

As for the question of ‘what nature intended’, it is fairly clear that nature intended for species to cull their weakest members, rather than diverting resources from the most fit to survive to those who need assistance. However, that is one of the differences between civilized societies and the wilds: we, as an intelligent species, are capable of using our cognitive functions, as well as our sense of compassion, to deviate from nature’s intentions at times. As such, any argument based on those intentions fails miserably.

Standing ovation for that one, Kyla!!

While I do agree that a “life experience” model would be of benefit, I do have serious problems comparing a medical model (transsexual) to a non medical model (BIID). For example, the purpose of a medical assessment for GID/transsexuality is because certain untreated mental conditions will produce the conviction of the need to be the other gender (schizophrenia being one). “Life experience” is to evaluate the motivation and adjustment of the person involved (for example if the person is only going to nightclubs with an “I’m so sexy” attitude, they probably won’t pass). Also because reality and fantasy are two different things. I myself had this fantasy about being blind at 6 or 7 (too many books about Helen Keller) – did it for three days, never had a fantasy about it again. Obviously a “life experience” could help to seperate those who can recieve other forms of treatment.

But gender identity is something which is hardwired into humans and through the horrid “nature v. nuture” sex assignments of the 60′s and 70′s, now conditions like intersex or ambigious genitalia wait until gender identity presents for assignment. Even the phrase GID is contested, because the “older generation” of specialists viewed it as a sexual dysfunction whose only treatment was a sex change – they viewed it akin to pedophilia (unable to change self view and behavoir) while the new generation, due to advances in brain chemistry science and other scientific studies see it more in a medical state. However, the majority of transsexuals which to be the appropriate gender (as in “I am a female” or “I am a male”) while only a small percentage will have transsexual as their identifier.

With BIID, I can’t see how you could do a medical model unless you want to test to see if able bodied and non abled bodied is somehow hardwired into babies? It would appear that BIID actually has far more in common with body dysmorphia than transsexualism. Both are resistant to traditional treatment (both have a core which is resistant to treatment at all). Both have people who are distinctly unhappy with the body they have and will go to great lengths to achieve what they desire (of course the advantage BIID has here is that 1/6th of people of BIID don’t starve to death – has any studies been done on percentage of suicide though?).

I understand the attraction to ally with transsexual as it now has a medical model (and three generations of trials and follow up studies) – however, you should know that the majority of medical people still see it as GID which is classified as a mental disorder and in many countries as a disability – that’s why it is in the DSM (much as homosexuality was 40 years ago). If you link to GID, you are saying, “Yes, there is something mentally wrong with us which can’t be fixed.” – which I think is not your intention. You could however consider the social impact model, such as body image dismorphia where the person has integrated the ideas spread by society to such a point that society, as a force, will continue to create this mental force on individuals as long as society continues to hold on to particular ideas.

Beth,

My take on GID is that it is something wrong with the brain, but not a exactly a mental illness. The brain identifies one way but the physical body (genitals and every cell in the body) identify the body another way. Transsexuals are treated surgically because nothing else works short of brainwashing and selfdelusion a la “Ex-Gays.” The body is far easier to change compared to the mind.

One can consider GID’s presence in the DSM because the disorder manifests itself in such a way that it presents as a mental illness. Severe depression, self-harm, and other fun stuff. Seems better to have GID in writing in a book for shrinks to be reminded of its presence so they can’t fob the diagnosis off a some crackpot theory. Of course, I could be wrong. I’m torn on GID’s presense in the DSM and its name. Some days I prefer “Harry Benjamin’s Syndrome” for political reasons and wish it was out of the DSM (We’re NOT crazy!) and other days I don’t care.

Why is it so bad to be labelled as having a mental illness? Could someone tell me what the F*** is so bad about it? Obviously, society’s pressures and perception make it a negative, but I fail to see how a mental illness should be perceived any more, or less, negatively than blindness, or paraplegia.

As far as I’m concerned, I would much prefer to see BIID listed in the DSM, because it has to be listed *somewhere* before medical professionals take us seriously. I say, put it in the DSM, start studying in properly (studies for origins of, causes of, as well as treatment options, including surgery). Then in 25, or 50 years from now, work at getting it removed from the DSM if appropriate. I’m much with marie about BIID manifesting itself with depression, self-harm and “other fun stuff”.

I don’t mind saying “yes, there’s something wrong with me that can only be fixed through surgery”.

As for the comparison to body dysmorphia, there’s one major element that is different. In general, those with dysmorphia view their body as wrong, or abnormal, whereas those with BIID know that our body parts are perfectly normal, they just don’t fit with our mental map of our bodies.

Dr. First, who is an editor of the DSM, and who coined the term BIID came up with BIID with the concept of GID in mind.

Simply put: because once a person is labeled as mentally ill, any chance, no matter how slight, that may have existed for that person’s expression of his/her needs to be taken seriously by the medical community, is completely and irrevocably negated. That’s all. A label of mental illness is a guaranteed assurance that we can simply be dismissed and ignored, told that it’s all in our heads, and thus be denied not only the physical treatments that we need, but even the right to be heard by physicians or properly studied.

I completely, utterly and absolutely disagree with that Kyla… :)

It should be noted that the conclusions from the post mortem studies carried out on transsexuals have received fairly damning criticism in the scientific community. The researchers, themselves, had to reassess their initial findings after they failed to take into account the hormones that the transsexual individuals had taken in their lifetime.

There is currently no concrete evidence that Bstc (the area supposedly responsible for ‘brain sex’) is responsible for transsexualism. To claim this as fact or truth (as many do) is, at this point in time, pure speculation

Lydia, Source?

I don’t see mental illness as being a bad thing for BIID to be labelled as. At least, as Sean put it, for now.

Homosexuality, for example, remained repressed and unspoken of for a period, and was then categorized as a mental illness.

It was only a matter of time that it became relatively accepted by society. I’m not saying that being gay and BIID are the same, I’m just saying they’ll probably suffer similar circumstances. And even if current BIID sufferers don’t reap the rewards of their efforts to get it known, at least they may know they have given BIID people of the future a better chance of a mentally satisfactory life.

Living a lie is the worst human punishment.

I agree, Sean…I think that everyone who says “I don’t want it called a mental illness” is just propegating (sic) the stigmatizing that those with mental illnesses have to face in this society. And it’s not fair. On the other hand, as someone who has dealt with Major Depression since I was 16 (I’m 30 now), I understand not wanting to have to deal with the stigma if you don’t have to. It’s a burden and difficult to bear.

I am a social work student, actually studying BIID for a research paper, and came upon this forum and had some things to add. As a member of the LGBT community, I think I can lend some insight about transgender folk as well as the issues of the DSM.

My friends who are transgender see the fact that GID is in the DSM in this way: It’s how we get our surgery paid for.

It’s a crappy diagnosis, yes, and one that replaced homosexuality in the DSM III, if you want to know the truth, but I think that it’s not as stigmatizing to be put in there as it could possibly be. Now, I do have a friend who was hospitalized in the 1980′s for GID (against his will) – wrote a book called the Last Time I Wore a DRess…but it’s not generally something that gets people involuntarily committed.

Honestly, I think that getting BIID in the DSM would give it credibility, would get people funding for research, and would get better treatments/funding for surgeries, etc… All in all, I think it would be better than it currently is for people who have BIID.

My thoughts,

Amanda

Your comments are much interesting boys, but … : the main question remains open, completely unanswered : I want to obtain an amputation – and no surgeon is ready to perform it, although most of them are now ready to accept transgender surgeries. Should I put my legs under the wheels of a heavy lorry to become a DAK ?
Michael, from Brussels – Belgium.

I’m a transsexual man (female-to-male, FTM), so I’m trying really hard to keep an open mind here, but I can’t see any more than a most superficial connection between transsexualism and BIID.

Transsexuals are a diverse group, so some will take issue with the following. In my experience, the defining characteristics of transsexualism are:

1. An overall discomfort with one’s gendered body configuration, present from about age 3 or 4.

2. Identification with the opposite sex/gender, and the sense that ones brain, soul, etc. belongs to that sex/gender.

3. An awareness from at least puberty-onward that the hormonal milleu produced by one’s body is wrong for his or her brain, experienced as a traumatic hormone imbalance during puberty.

4. All transsexuals (in my opinion) pursue hormone replacement therapy (HRT) at the very least. Most also pursue some type of surgery. Almost all FTMs get double mastectomy/chest reconstruction. Most also get hysterectomy/oophorectomy, but there are reasons for that in addition to personal choice, including the presence of fibroids or cysts, and the fact that doctors recommend it with 5 years of starting HRT as a cancer prevention measure. Few FTMs obtain genital surgery (partly due to cost and the imperfections of the current technology).

Among transsexual women (MTF), most seem to pursue genital surgery and view that as the end of transition, while FTMs tend to view transition as more open-ended, with each treatment, surgery or stage as a milestone, but not the end of the journey.

The goal for both is to become more comfortable in our skin, to live life more fully, to be ourself openly–indeed, to become more able-bodied. Pre-treatment, transsexualism is like a handicap.

I will point out that I feel very strongly about that every individual should have absolute sovereignty over his or her body. No one should ever have medically unnecessary surgeries performed against his or her will, or without his or her consent, including neonatal circumcision and sex assignment of intersexed infants. Individuals should also to free to do whatever they wish with their own bodies.

But– Able-bodied individuals also have a responsibilty to take care of themselves, work for a living, contribute to the economy and society, help others who are less fortunate, etc. So, I find questionable the desire to be rid of one’s able-bodied status.

Sean wrote, “Why is it so bad to be labelled as having a mental illness?”

“A psychiatric diagnosis is more than shorthand to facilitate communication among professionals or to standardize research parameters. Psychiatric diagnoses affect child custody decisions, self-esteem, whether individuals are hired or fired, receive security clearances, or have other rights and privileges curtailed. Criminals may find that their sentences are either mitigated or enhanced as a direct result of their diagnoses. The equating of unusual sexual interests with psychiatric diagnoses has been used to justify the oppression of sexual minorities and to serve political agendas. A review of this area is not only a scientific issue, but also a human rights issue.” — Dr. Charles Moser and Peggy Kleinplatz in a 2005 paper published in the Journal of Psychology and Human Sexuality

Hello Wolfgang, thank you for your comment. I understand you are uncomfortable with BIID, most people are. Please let me address some of your points.

1. An overall discomfort with one’s gendered body configuration, present from about age 3 or 4.

Most transabled individual have an overall discomfort with their bodies from a very young age. My first memories relating to this go back to age 3 or 4. I am not alone.

2. Identification with the opposite sex/gender, and the sense that ones brain, soul, etc. belongs to that sex/gender.

Replace “sex/gender” with disability/impairment and you have the experience of a transabled individual.

3. An awareness from at least puberty-onward that the hormonal milleu produced by one’s body is wrong for his or her brain, experienced as a traumatic hormone imbalance during puberty.

Well, here we don’t have hormone issues, but we experience trauma at living in a body that is “wrong”

4. All transsexuals (in my opinion) pursue hormone replacement therapy (HRT) at the very least. Most also pursue some type of surgery. Few FTMs obtain genital surgery (partly due to cost and the imperfections of the current technology).

There is no hormone to take. The vast majority of transabled individuals would pursue surgery, but IT IS NOT AVAILABLE TO US. If surgery was an accepted option for transabled inviduals, we would jump at the change.

The goal for both is to become more comfortable in our skin, to live life more fully, to be ourself openly–indeed, to become more able-bodied. Pre-treatment, transsexualism is like a handicap.

Our goal is for us to be more comfortable in our own skins, to live life more fully, to be ourselves, openly. In effect, an impairment is our way to wholeness. Not having an impairment creates a disabling condition for us.

But– Able-bodied individuals also have a responsibilty to take care of themselves, work for a living, contribute to the economy and society, help others who are less fortunate, etc. So, I find questionable the desire to be rid of one’s able-bodied status.

You are assuming that people with disabilities are unable to take care of themselves, work, and be productive members of society. You are further assuming that transabled individuals are seeking an impairment to get on benefits, which is absolutely not the case. In face, it is without a physical impairment that we are less productive, less able to work, etc.

Right on, Sean!

Sean, you, and others, certainly speak of your condition using much the same language we do. I guess I just don’t/can’t understand why you would want to mutilate a healthy body part. Why? Yes, I know, people say the exact same thing to us transsexuals. But when a transman has a mastectomy, the surgeon uses the external tissues to create a flat, male chest. When a transwomen gets a vaginoplasty, the surgeon inverts her penis to create a functional neovagina. We don’t merely have these body parts chopped off, and of course their alteration doesn’t affect our ability to see, hear, or walk.

In all honesty, I not happy with the idea of you trying to draw comparisons between BIID and transsexualism. Transsexuals would be a lot more tolerant of you if you stopped doing that, and found your own language to discuss your condition with, unless you can somehow prove (using scientific research) that there’s a connection.

Two studies from the Netherlands have shown that the BSTc region of the hypothalamus is sexually dimorphic, and that those of transsexuals correspond to our gender identity. The studies also showed that hormones have no effect on the size of that region, which is about twice as large in males and transmen as females and transwomen. A recent study on phantom limbs found that most women experience phantom breasts after mastectomy but transmen don’t, and most men experience phantom penises after losing theirs in accidents, but transwomen, following vaginoplasty, don’t. Studies on mice and fruit flies have suggested a genetic basis for gender-specific behavior, and there are plenty of examples of cross-gender behavior throughout the animal kingdom.

The question is, are there any cases of animals exhibiting symptoms of BIID? If you want to be taken seriously, you’ll need to find that kind of evidence in addition to brain studies. Without any science to back up your claims, the only thing I can think is “Weird!,” but don’t take that too harshly because I’m pretty weird myself. I certainly support the informed-consent model of medicine, so, to each his/her own.

Wolfgang I just have to raise one point with your first reply:

But– Able-bodied individuals also have a responsibilty to take care of themselves, work for a living, contribute to the economy and society, help others who are less fortunate, etc. So, I find questionable the desire to be rid of one’s able-bodied status.

This is the kind of talk that kept us (transfolk) from treatment and surgery because we have otherwise healthy reproductive capabilities. Are we sterile people disabled because we can’t reproduce? Have we become unable to contribute? Others find that choice to be questionable as well.

By the way, Beethoven composed most of his famous Symphony no. 9 when he was “disabled” — stone deaf! ;-) Georgina Beyer (former New Zealand MP) is a transsexual, too!

@Wolfgang, I would say that “able-bodied”, “normal” and the like are relative terms. There is no perfect or ideal mind or body against which everyone’s must be measured. Anyhow, the point being made here, as I understand it, is that our body image doesn’t conform to the body we have. It’s nice that someone has maybe found something going on with the hypothalamus that might account for sexual identity, but the transabled community has not been able to stir enough constructive interest among the medicos to get to anything like that place.

Marie wrote, “Are we sterile people disabled because we can’t reproduce?”

Good point. I never thought of that as a disability, but I guess that’s the same thing BIID sufferers are saying about their limbs and senses.

Maybe there is some sort of body map in the brain, though it may be more complicated than that. There are ganglions (mini-brains) throughout the body to consider as well.

Wolfgang, FWIW, there is a team of neurologists, including a world reknown one, Ramachandran, out of UCSD who have found indications in MRI brain scans of BIID individuals that there is something “wonky” with the areas of body schema… Not proof at the moment, just solid indication that it’s likely to be more than purely psychological, likely neuropsychological.

One of the problems that arises in these debates (for transsexuals as well) is that science is finding that all so-called “psychological” manifestations have a physical neurological basis, whether chemical, structural, or both. “psychological” is in fact an antiquated and purely subjective concept.

The question then becomes one of individual autonomy vs. public interest. That’s, ultimately, the contruct in which all minority arguments will need to be framed. But for now, the general public needs to see scientific data, and, unfortunately, small demographics tend to be overlooked by researchers, even though such research can reveal useful information about the human body in general.

I will freely admit that when I first read about BIID, my initial reaction was identical to the reaction we transsexuals get from others. I won’t deny that the idea of purposely “handicapping” onesself makes me uncomfortable. On that note, I’m going to spend some time analyzing my reaction in the hope of becoming a better person.

HA! Tit for tat. My reaction to transsexuals has always been similar to your initial reaction to BIID. Then when I started to seriously consider my BIID, its implications, and the possibility and desirability of surgery, I realized that some re-thinking regarding transsexuals was in order. :o)

Astonished to realise that I, diagnosed TG M to F, but not proceeded with for 50+ years, have this condition. To the extent that I have seriously investigated self-castration, but never carried it out, because I have never found a “safe” way of ensuring my survival. Its my own personal problem, but I shall probably go to my grave never having been understood, or forgiving myself for feeling this way.
I do not understand it either, although its very real, to me.
Love and luck to all.

The main problem I have with all this BIID crap is the fact that no-one seems to have pointed out the essential differences between transsexuals and the amputees – namely that the transsexual has genital/breast surgery to enable her/him to live more fully and happily and BE THE SAME as everyone else while the amputee wants to curtail and induce various difficulties into their life and BE SEEN as different from everyone else.
And then might I ask what about the change of sexual orientation frequently seen in transsexuals compared to amputees? If a male/female lops of a leg/arm/eye does that make him/her more attractive to the same or the opposite sex?
Does the married amputee (is there such a thing?) think about the real and daily physical problems he/she causes his/her partner immediatly after amputation and in old age when the lack of a limb will increase the spouse’s and the health service’s costs and problems?
When does the desire for amputation start? In the womb or when playing doctors and nurses as infants?
Amputees are sick in the head – but I’d love to eavesdrop on a meeting of them to listen to them rationalising their behaviour.

Rose; You have really missed what has been posted on this site.

People with BIID want to end their suffering, and wish the medical community would take it seriously and come up with a treatment, other than the extreme.

Those of us who suffer with BIID suffer as those who require gender reassignment. We have had these feelings since early childhood, then suffered with having to deal with it from the time we realized it was not normal. We can not nor do we expect others to know exactly how we feel, we want this condition to be taken seriously.

Is some body becoming disabled to rid themselves of the need any more of a burden to their loved ones than a TG person who enters a heterosexual relationship with an individual wishing to raise a family naturally with their partner?

Those who contribute to this site have given the ramifications of their desires a lot of thought. Certainly all of us have given thought to how this would impact others. It should be obvious that they are not raving lunatics, or some fringe group looking for legitimacey. You are dealing with high functioning individuals here.

We do not wish to gain sympathy or empathy from onlookers. None of us want to become charity cases, wards of the state. We are not exhibitionists. Most of us do not give a hoot how others perceive us, this is about our own self image and a burning desire we can not explain nor fully understand. We all want a cure, right now the only cure that seems to work is surgery.

I think gender reassignment is accepted by the general public to what ever degree it is simply because it is politically correct to do so, not out of enlightenment. Those who make known their negative opinions on the topic are considered somewhere in the realm of Holocaust deniers.

Rose your comments are based on the assumption that BIID is attention/sexually driven when we have said countless times here our problems are not about other people.

I also think the disability rights community would have something to say about ur statement “Amputees are sick in the head”.

…I guess with the rose, sometimes you get the thorns…

…I think the people that have already commented have said most of what needed to be said.

Rose is using a blanket term “amputee” to refer to people who have BIID. Of course, that’s not in the least accurate, as most amputees become amputees through accident, disease, or congenital conditions, and of course don’t wish or seek amputeeism in the least. Rose is confusing these people with the transabled or “BIID sufferers” who *desire* to be amputees, but most of whom are not actually amputees. So my point is that anyone who is entirely unable to distinguish between these two communities need not be taken very seriously.

Transsexuals are not like everyone, they need hormones the rest of their lives, the surgery takes away their gonads, so they produce no hormones and also they cant reproduce.

So they are impaired from a “normal” point of view.

And to add to what Claire said, many of us are not into amputation at all anyhow, need other conditions.

True Brice, myself included!

palsy types…

What I do say, is that I don’ t want to be turned into something I’ m not, and I don’ t wish that upon anyone, including this child. The aim of support or treatment for this child, or me, or anyone, should not be to“ normalize” them. When in …

The parallel I see between transsexualism and BIID is that in both cases non-treatment is problematic, and in both cases surgery is a quicker, more effective approach. Until someone comes up with a magic pill that takes the feelings away, surgery will remain an option. Prior to the first few sex change operations the idea was repugnant to the medical community. This attitude has not totally changed, but has altered considerably over the last 4 or 5 decades. The rational about one type of surgery being acceptable and the other not is just plain goofy. Both gender reassignment and body alteration are serious and irreversible, but which body parts are modified and in which way is rather moot.

I do understand concerns such as creating societal burdens, but come on, you could apply the same arguments to other types of volitional behavior – drinking, smoking, overeating etc.
If a person is obsessing about something to the extent that their quality of life is compromised, ignoring the issue and hoping it will ‘go away’ is not an effective treatment. Everyone is entitled to a shot at happiness and fulfillment, even if their desires are different from ours. Of course this wouldn’t extend to desires that bring harm to others, but helping someone align their emotional and physical perceptions doesn’t harm others. How about tattoos, piercings and other forms of body alteration? You cannot go to your physician and insist they pierce your tongue, but you can have that procedure performed legally, even though others don’t agree with the outcome. As a heterosexual male I have no need for body modification, but if I wanted boobs they could be legally arranged, even though that could easily jeopardize my career and family. If someone wants to become disabled, are we better off as a society to allow that or not? There are consequences to simply refusing to treat, and so far as I am aware, there currently are no effective psychological protocols to overcome either transsexualism or BIID.

The notion that transsexualism is acceptable and BIID is not makes about as much sense as deciding psychosis is OK, but depression isn’t. They are both ‘issues’ (insert your favorite term), varying in degree from person to person and the impact upon their life, but one is not more ‘virtuous’ than another, and neither would be deliberately chosen by anyone.

Thank you for another extemely perceptive and well stated comment, miked.

I have had genital surgery. It was easy for me to obtain through standard medical channels. It has vastly improved my sense of well being. If, as I suspect, becoming paraplegic will have a similar psychological effect, then I will be one happy camper.

[...] as being “trapped in the wrong body” and needing surgery to correct the dissonance. This is the argument put forth by some transabled people. They say once they get rid of that goddamn leg, right above the knee, [...]

[...] Posted by Felicity Here’s a transgender BIID person’s perspective on the similarities. A comparison between transsexuality and transableism transabled.org Blogging about BIID Oh, yeah. I get the gist of it just fine. What I meant was that I don’t have anything specific [...]

Wow… I have read all the above and I take it in. I have quite a bit of thinking to do, and a lot of accepting…. of myself.

So I should accept my “funny” desire to be one handed? I should accept that this is a serious condition called BIID? Well, I have always had this “fantasy” and I have looked at it from different angles over time (a lot of time), but I always thought it was not acceptable and that I should fight it (and hide it) – even if I have always ended up indulging into it now and then. I’m over 40 now, and it is about time I got down to it: it won’t go away.

This discussion is somewhat of a echo of my life so far, an alternation of: “This is sick, being an amputee is NOT an option, I’m a freak” and “I need it, I don’t see how I can get on with living without it”.

It is about time I came down to it. Thank you to all of you for all this.

My heart sank a little just reading your post Tom. That creeping, horryifying realization that this problem isn’t going anywhere….it’s nightmarish. On the other hand it’s extremely comforting to know other people are out there dealing with the same thing. Good luck to you.

Sarah, yes, it is comfort to know that there’s a number of us out there, and I want to join the common effort to share and maybe find solutions, even little ones. I don’t know what your are up to, but good luck to you too.
I wrote a few pages recently about my feelings, my experiences and my life history. Sean will start publish all this next week.

Tom, it’s not easy getting to that point, but it makes a difference, releasing the weight. Welcome to the journey.

This fascinates me. How many of you realize that the GID diagnosis, indeed the entire dogma of transgenderism on which you’re relying as a rationalization for BIID, is highly suspect and totally rejected by a significant number of HBS transsexuals?

It will likely disappear into the dustbin of history over the next few years as irrelevant to the HBS experience. (Who are the very group your comparing yourselves to.)

Transgenderism is pure pseudo-science. It’s bizarre to see it being resurrected in this context.

Could it possibly be that your obsession with this fake comparison is actually exacerbating your apotemnophilia?

Joanne, I certainly am aware of the conflict happening in the GID community. Many are advocating for the removal of GID from the DSM. Yet, others are wanting it to stay there. FWIW, if GID is removed from the DSM, a very real and direct impact of it would be that SRS and hormones and other “treatment” would no longer be available through health insurance… So while the advocacy done by those of you against the inclusion in the “shrink’s bible” is valuable, it might have a rather devastating impact on many of your brothers and sisters…

I made no assumptions about sexual fetishism…And those individuals wanting the GID diagnosis to stay in the DSM are mainly Trans-gender, Not primary HBS Transsexuals. HBS activists certainly do want themselves removed from the GID category.

Its increasingly clear that HBS transsexualism is one of many biological variations in sex formation, Just as Benjamin believed it to be.

Increasingly HBS is seen as a medical condition, not a psychological disorder. Only a few die-hard psychologists (mainly from Canada) deny that these days.

As a medical condition it will be entitled to the same considerations as any other medical condition.

I’m afraid you have hung your arguments on the wrong hook,, gentlemen.

The GID diagnosis was wrong, primary HBS transsexualism is not, and has never been an ‘identity’ problem.

In fact I confidently challenge any one of you to produce a mote of scientific or substantive evidence to prove that a misaligned identity is capable of causing any form of behavioral problem! Its junk science and you should find somewhere else to draw your validity from

Last comment from me. Your a sad little bunch and you have my pity. You cannot have my respect!
BTW…check out my blog URL :-)

Joanne, I think you will find that we are aware of a lot of things. I am intersexed, and for years I have been a strong advocate at the local level of including people with HBS in the intersex community. That’s just not relevant to BIID though.

BIID is no more a sexual fetish than HBS, or any other intersex condition.

Your a sad little bunch and you have my pity

And you are a patronising, ignorant individual. Piss on pity. I had already seen your blog URL. I thought about responding to you there, but considering your approach here, I see no point. FWIW, you consistently use “apotemnophilia”, which relegates BIID to the state of a sexual fetish. Had you bothered to do any reading in the academic literature, you’d have seen that it is NOT the case.

Joanne, I have been to your website and I happen to agree with most of what you say about HBS. I also know personally the scientists at the Karolinska Institute, who you cite in support of your position, since I have been engaged in similar work. I AM on your side. I find it utterly absurd and ignorant that you are not on my side.

Its simple: You attempt to colonize the distress of one group to legitimize your own.

The process is positively parasitic. I’ve no respect for parasites. I don’t doubt your perceived distress. But the way you rationalize to yourselves is a disgrace.

You were always going to run into an HBS activist if you kept this shit up!

As for you Chloe, I don’t know your scientific background…or if you even have one. Personally mine is law and comparative politics politics.

It demands evidence, not speculation and conjecture. If you claim to have a scientific education, then you have abandoned the scientific method.

You,, all of you deserve shaming. Not for distress but the way you deal with it!

Geez, Joanne, you’re almost as bad as a Youtube commenter. (no research, incorrect assumptions, etc) We have your pity? We don’t need pity. In fact, we don’t WANT pity. I almost pity you… Coming in here and making such ignorant posts, which are almost guaranteed to earn you some flames. Maybe that’s just what she wanted…
On a side note, it’s somewhat fitting that this post was the first that caught my eye when I logged on… That’s all that’s been on my mind for the last few days, due to a close friend informing me that he was/is transgendered… I kinda already knew, it’s not exactly a SECRET with him, but it was still funny to hear him announce it at lunch the other day. (Honestly, you begin to suspect something when a guy walks up to you, steals your calculator, and introduces himself as “Ninja-boy’s fangirl”.)
(Ninja-boy is a kid that used to go to my school)
So, not strictly relevant, but that’s my post. The end. ^_^

I was going to write out a nice reply to you, Joanne, but instead I think that I will stoop to your level:

You’re over 50 years old. Is your life so sad that you feel the need to cling onto your transsexual identity? From quick googling it seems that you had surgery years ago, can’t you let it go? Is your transgender identity so firm in your head after so many years that you flock and obsess on things that don’t concern you?

Why didn’t you transition when you were young, like real “primary transsexuals”? I put the phrasing in quotation marks because it’s a bogus ancient term used by old psychologists reminiscing about the 60s and transsexuals trying to justify that they’re superior to other people out of some bizarre desire to try and fit the perfect mould and convince themselves that they aren’t, in fact, “secondary transsexuals” (one has to wonder if, at that point, it isn’t really just a mid-life crisis). Would it surprise you to learn that the author of this essay wrote it when she was 26 and 2 years after having GRS? Primary HBS indeed.

Despite the strong language in this comment I would like to wish you well in removing GID from the DSM and, instead, having it recognised as a more legitimate medical condition without the silly GID-as-manifestation-of-dysphoria DSM entry. There are countless secondary transsexuals, like yourself, that are counting on it! Along the way in your unending fight and inability to let the politics go, because we all know that as things stand now no one can transition or obtain medical help.

Do continue to read and comment on transabled.org, especially after commenting that you will no longer do so. (Clever that way, I get the last word!)

Joanne, if you had the remotest clue about the scientific method you would know that a little humility is a necessary ingredient. However, it seems that you have yet to acquire the maturity to understand the concept of humility.

And, yes, speculation and conjecture are absolutely part of the scientific method.

Hmmmm….. at least you do mention the congenital factors in transsexualism…. but…
If someone disables themselves in some way, purposely, because of a fetish or phobia that ought to be treated, it would be unreasonable to expect the usual support services to be extended to such a person.
Freedom to mutilate your body is not freedom to abuse the state support systems.
Given that proviso, and that they have no dependants, so-called “trans-abled” people can do what they like with their own bodies as far as I am concerned.
However, to compare a psychological disorder (which this indubitably is) with a congenital condition like transsexualism is not only a little insulting to transsexuals, but further blurs the boundaries and reinforces the position of the “transgender” lobby in putting transsexuals into the “GLBT” box.
The comparison is odious.

Kathryn, BIID is not “indubitably” psychological. There is growing evidence that it is in fact a neurological condition, as shown in the MRI brain scan of several individual, a study led by a reknowned neurologist out of UCSD. Our need to be an amputee, paraplegic, blind or deaf is NOT a sexual fetish, nor is it a phobia. While there is a minority of people with BIID who have a sexual aspect of it, but this is far from the majority of people.

You say “get help”, but what help is there? Psychotherapy does not work. Pharmacotherapy does not work. The ONLY thing that works is for people to acquire their required impairment. Do therapy and drugs help transsexuals? I don’t think so. What would you say if I said to someone who’s transgendered “you’re sick, go seek help”? I assume you’d get upset. Well, reverse the roles for a moment…

Finally, no one here has any intention of abusing state support systems. We have a condition (whether it is psychological, neurological or psychoneurological). This condition makes us require a physical impairment. We do not want this condition. Should we be penalised because of a condition we have no control over? Should transsexuals be penalised because of a condition they have no control over? No, of course not. The fact that you are, in fact, too often shafted is wrong. Keep in mind that my “untreated” BIID is costing society a shitload more in terms of lost productivity than the costs of paraplegia would ever do.

A further thought. Transsexuals have long been ostrarcised and discriminated against. I find it unfathomable that transsexuals are so quick to turn around and discriminate against and ostracise another group of people – those who have BIID. Not only is it unfathomable, but it pisses me off.

Sadly I found out long ago that being a member of an oppressed minority is no guarantee against being oppressive or bigoted towards others. Every one of us is more than capable of prejudice based on ignorance. The mark of humanity is being able to recognise and then do something about one’s own intolerance.

Kathryn, it astounds me how people feel they can swoop in here to make judgments without informing themselves. And it\’s so easy to do so…I\’ve mentioned this fact TONS of times on many of the various boards that discuss BIID. Spend ten minutes trying to find out more about the people you\’re insulting and you\’ll find out that maybe it\’s not all as clear-cut as you think. Yet people come in, read one post, and post some ignorant comment that\’s not in the least based on fact. Google the name \”VS Ramachandran\”. He\’s one of the foremost behavioral neurologists in the world. He (along with Paul McGeoch – who from what I can tell actually does most of the work!) have been studying people with BIID including GSR tests, and MRI and MEG scans, all of which have been performed on me. They are convinced that BIID is neurological and arises from a congenital defect in the part of the brain that processes body image. If you Google their names and BIID you\’ll find information on the studies they\’ve done.

I am reminded of a discussion between myself and my psychotherapist about six years ago. I asked her what motivates some people to be mean to hermaphrodites (it happens). She explained that people who perceive themselves to be low on the social totem pole sometimes lack the maturity to deal with their own lack of self-acceptance in a healthy way. Instead they try to make themselves feel better by denigrating another minority group in order to feel superior to them. People who come here to criticise say very little about us. However, they are revealing a great deal about their own lack of self-acceptance.

To those of us with BIID: Please do not imagine that transsexuals who criticise us are even remotely representative of transsexuals as a group. I have had quite the opposite experience. I am very grateful to my transsexual friends, two of whom also have mobility impairments, for their acceptance, support and understanding of my BIID.

To those of you who come here to denigrate us: I had no more choice about having BIID than I did about being a hermaphrodite. So go ahead, make my day. Tell me I am a shameful phobic fetishist who deserves no respect, just because I am a hermaphrodite. It will make you feel better about yourself.

To all the people with BIID
I just wanted to say, “Wow….” Before I read your comments, it was hard to believe that people with BIID were not totally crazy. It still surprises me, but I believe you.
What is even better, is that my shock in juxtaposition to your assertiveness reguarding your own BIID actually makes me more confident about the legitimacy of my GID.
This is because, while reading your comments, I tried to think of any transablist thoughts I may have had in the past or present, but I could not think of a single thing. I actually realized that I have a very personal attachment to most all of my ablism, my arms in particular.
To me this means that if you can all feel so obviously sure of your own transablism, while I have not a shread of personal understanding of it myself, then there is no reason to believe that my transgenderism needs to be understood by other people who do not have a personal understanding of it at all either.
So I just wanted to thank you all for for being who you are! ^_^

Thank you, Jo. I am of the opinion that people with BIID and people with GID are natural allies of each other. We go through a lot of analogous psychological process, even though the details may be different. I wish you the best.

Thank you Jo, I’m glad that the site and the participants have helped you figure something new for yourself :)

There are no paralells whatsoever between transsexuality and wanting to be handicapped, you sick person.

Transsexual people identify with a healthy state, and any diminishment to their functions incurred by transition, such as infertility (which nonetheless can be offset by sex cell storage), is unwanted, and only a product of the current state of medical technology. Transition has been proved by time to be necessary in relieving these persons’ stress and increasing their happiness and quality of life. On the other hand, getting your spine mangled and becoming a cripple, likely (…) never will do that for you.

Surgeries, in transsexual people, do not involve removing body parts (though eventually some tissue, such as the gonads, which are prone to cancer due to hormone therapy), and it’s the distorted vision of mostly MtF vaginoplasty as involving cutting the penis off that allows for some strained connection to be possibly (but implausibly) established.

The people on this site are unashamedly dishonest about transsexuality and its ‘paralells’ because they see it as their hope for their pathological desires to be fulfilled by the medical establishment, which, however, will never happen. And it’s further degradation of transsexualiy and transsexual people, who already have their share of troubles. Please, you sick people, leave us alone. It’s not our fault you’re deranged. Get yourselves a psychiatrist, and a life. You’ll see it will go away eventually if you find some meaning to your life…

sc, thank you for your comment. I considered not publishing it, but thought maybe once more I’d attempt explaining these issues. Someday, maybe one of you will actually read it and try to understand what we’re saying…

You know, it wasn’t so long ago that the majority of the public thought that transsexual were “sickos”. Not long ago at all. Like… It’s still happening now. I find it amazing that someone from a group that is oppressed such as transsexual can be so petty and narrow minded as what you show in your comment.

The parallels between GID and BIID have been drawn not by myself only, but by people who specialise in working with transsexuals, by world reknowned psychiatrists, and by transsexuals (pre and/or post op) who also have BIID. The parallels we draw are not meant to explain causality, that is, we are NOT claiming that we have BIID for the same, or even similar, reasons you have GID. But it is a useful comparison to explain BIID to “the masses”. Even that point is discussed in many academic papers (look for Nikki Sullivan (2008), Christopher Ryan (2008), or Sabine Muller (2009) for but three examples).

You express the sentiment that someone with a spinal cord injury becomes a criple, implying that they become useless and good for nothing. This is not an uncommon sentiment in the world at large. But it is a wrong impression. People with disabilities can, and are, working at as high levels as anyone else. Lawyers, doctors, architects, heck, Stephen Hawking (sp?) is one of the top 5 astro physicists around… You negative bias against disabilities can only negatively influence your attitude towards individuals with BIID.

You asked to be left alone. I really fail to see how our struggle makes yours worse, even if we DO draw comparative lines between GID and BIID. Next you’ll ask the gay community to turn straight because the association of “GLBT” negatively impacts your issues.

You finish by exhorting us to get a shrink and a life. Obviously you haven’t read much at all about what we’re saying. Psychiatry does NOT help with BIID. Psychotherapy does NOT help with BIID. This comes from individuals who have BIID and have attempted psychotherapy (such as myself, but others as well) for decades. It also comes from the published literature on the topic. Before you mention medication, it does not work either… As for BIID going away eventually… I’ve had this since I was 3 years old. It’s as likely to go away as your gender issues are -> Not at all.

“You sick people”? Geez, sc!

Are you not aware that within living memory state of the art surgery for MtFs consisted of castration and penectomy? Are you not aware that people used to consider transsexuals to be sick perverted sexual deviants? Where is your sense of history and perspective?

I have been a member of the local GLBTI community for many years. I have found that my transsexual friends have been particularly understanding and supportive of my having BIID because they immediately get the analogy; just as I am of them. It absolutely astonishes me that there are transsexuals who do not get this.

Maybe you just need to GROW UP!

Two good friends of mine are transgendered (that’s how they describe themselves, they don’t use the word transsexual) and I have told one of them about BIID. She understood almost immediately (once I explained to her what paraplegia was) and told me that it was perfectly ok. One day we were describing our experiences to each other, and I think we were both surprised how much the stories really matched up, especially since we grew up in very different situations and found out about our trans-whatever in different ways.
I find it interesting that whenever a person posts something like this, they tend to show that they really did no research on the subject before commenting. Maybe those who actually read about it are convinced and so they don’t post angrily?

It is amazing how tolerance can be turned on and off as if it has a switch.

The transgendered were finally taken seriously when people turned up in emergency wards years ago with mutilated genitals. Why would otherwise rational people do things like this….

Either sc is tg or has been brow-beaten by political correctness or lives in fear of the thought police. Either way, a small mind is not a terrible thing to loose.

GID is STILL considered a sick, perverted, deviant sin. Children and people are being taught by the church and other religious sects that GID is a sin and that transsexuals can choose to be normal. I was raised to believe this, even went to seminars where “ex-transsexuals” told us how they were wrong. If I can change and learn to accept GID is another mental illness then surely you can accept that BIID is just as genuine.

I believe that there may in fact be individuals who can claim to be ex-transexuals. They were not really transexuals to begin with, but probably mis diagnosed themselves. I also think that some people may believe they have BIID, but actually do not. Other issues may lead them to this conclusion. So, even if surgery is ultimately available, nobody should receive ‘same day service’.

I agree with all of these points, Ronald. I suspect that most of us have tried to convince ourselves that we don’t really have BIID. It can’t be real. It’s too absurd. There must be some other explanation.

There are about a dozen reasons why people show up in a psychotherapist’s office stating that their body does not match their gender. Only one of those reasons is GID.

I love this article. I’m FTM and want to be blind and this article describes me exactly! I have noticed the same similarities between transgenderism and transablism from my personal feelings. Thank you for writing this article!

I know transpeople used to be (and still are) considered sicko but I really hope some day that both types of trans people aren’t considered sicko anymore because we’re not hurting anyone…we’re just being who we are.

“The parallels between GID and BIID have been drawn not by myself only, but by people who specialise in working with transsexuals, by world reknowned psychiatrists, and by transsexuals (pre and/or post op) who also have BIID.”

By fringe ‘researchers’ with no credibility (who are intent on media attention and unable to produce real research), you mean. I’ve never met a transsexual person who wanted to be an amputee, and not even anyone who thought this was but madness.

“But it is a useful comparison to explain BIID to “the masses”.”
Thanks for admitting your intentions, and that you are afraid to stand by yourself. Unfortunately for you they are wholly unrelated, but, unfortunately for us, this might be yet another thing to feed the general public’s transphobia.

“implying that they become useless and good for nothing.”
I’m not disabled-phobic, put no words in my mouth.
Stephen Hawking, for instance, does lead a very productive life – but still wishes he never got ill. However, there is no evidence at all that if/when you get maimed(not disabled) you’ll be a happier or more productive person, and plenty to the contrary.

“You asked to be left alone. I really fail to see how our struggle makes yours worse, even if we DO draw comparative lines between GID and BIID. Next you’ll ask the gay community to turn straight because the association of “GLBT” negatively impacts your issues.”
More putting words of in my mouth; funilly enough I’m a transsexual and a lesbian, and while I always stress gender identity and sexual orientation are different issues, because the public at large still does not know this, I have no problem in the company of cissexual homossexuals. Or jews, black people, and so on. I do have problems with pseudo-transsexuals – those people who modify their sexual phenotype out of a fetish, autohomophobia, or a mental illness, and go on to be miserable people for the rest of their lives. Transition in meant to free you, not destroy your life. My problem with amputations is that they never make anyone happier. I do have a problem with people who are their own enemies.
I’m not discriminated against by almost everyone I come in contact with, precisely because as soon as they talk to a real transsexual person they see that their ideias and stereotypes were completly wrong, and this makes us happier, better persons. People who know what transsexuality really is will reject your slurring of us by comparison, but the public at large will not, and that’s what concerns me.

“It absolutely astonishes me that there are transsexuals who do not get this.”
Never met one transsexual person who ‘gets’ that; maybe your acquaintances are mostly pseudo-transsexuals, and of course they’d relate. Maybe you’re just lying.

“I find it interesting that whenever a person posts something like this, they tend to show that they really did no research on the subject before commenting.”
That perfectly describes what was written here about transsexuality.

“If I can change and learn to accept GID is another mental illness then surely you can accept that BIID is just as genuine.”
Stop your transphobia. We’re not crazy – if want to be on that boat, ride it out alone.

“Either way, a small mind is not a terrible thing to loose [sic].”
Agreed. Losing a limb, though, that’s not very good for you.

Really, do seek a good psychologist: if they’ve been unable to help so far, that’s because they weren’t good enough. This is a mental disease, and curable – unlike transsexuality, which is not a disease and does not need curing. Keeping at this won’t get you a surgical amputation, and might well end up seriously injuring yourself with a DIY thing.

@sc I don’t think that one could say of Dr Michael First, the chief editor of the DSM that he is “fringe” or “media attention hungry” or that he has “no credibility”.

As for your comment about a good psychologist… There have been enough people with BIID talking to enough psychologists and psychiatrists that have been unable to help. I’m very sorry, but I’m FUCKING SICK AND TIRED OF BEIGN FUCKING TOLD TO GO SEEK FUCKING HELP WHEN NO FUCKING SHRINK CAN FUCKING HELP ME. There, perhaps yelling and being rude will *finally* make it clearer that we have sought help from shrinks, and they all shrug and say “sorry can’t help”.

Further, there is evidence now that BIID is actually neurological in nature (as evidenced by research coming out of UCSD). If I remember right, before evidence that GID had genetic/neurologic aspects of it, it was deemed to be all in the head too.

So, get off your your mighty horse, open your mind up, and live and let live!

I’m very sick and tired and intolerant of intolerant people today.

1) I’ve been to 4 shrinks, all 4 had never even heard of BIID, and when I finally settled on one who was willing to research it, she told me that there was no treatment protocol for it because it was “too marginal” and nothing had ever been found to cure it.

2) Please research VS Ramachandran’s study on BIID which shows compelling evidence that BIID arises from a problem with the part of the brain that processes body image, located in the temporal lobe. I other words, it’s not a “mental disease” but rather a neurological one. Please refrain from commenting until you’ve actually researched the latest findings on BIID. Thank you.

‘I’m not disabled-phobic, put no words in my mouth.’
no of course you’re not – you prefer to dicriminate against people with a mental illness, thus displaying your ignorance for all to see.
I echo what Sean is saying. If you are so comfortable with your own situation why feel the need to rant against others? Because you feel threatened and you lack confidence in your own assertions, that’s why.

Ah yes, sc, I must be lying. That explains everything, doesn’t it?

People who belittle others betray their own insecurity. Fortunately such insecurities, unlike BIID, CAN be alleviated with psychotherapy.

Thank you for helping us reach 100 comments on this post. I think that’s awesome!

Never met one transsexual person who ‘gets’ that; maybe your acquaintances are mostly pseudo-transsexuals, and of course they’d relate. Maybe you’re just lying.
***
Have you ever ASKED anyone if the ‘get’ it, or are you just saying you’ve never met any transsexuals that get it because you’ve never asked anyone? Because I know two transgendered people (that’s what they refer to themselves as) and neither of them have told me that I’m a sicko or told me to ‘get help’ or anything. Actually, we’ve just figured out that one of them is actually bi-gender, but it’s still very similar. She’s actually been the most supportive. (I don’t know the other one as well, though)

I find it interesting that you’re not actually listening to us, and pretty much repeating the same arguments over and over. Saying the same thing over and over doesn’t make it true, it just makes you sound like a fucking moron. HEY LOOK I SAID THE F-WORD. Yeah, you made me THAT angry. (My RL friends freak out when I swear because it’s very rare for me.)

Anyway, thank you for the invitation to ‘get help’. I’m sure we’d all LOVE to take your advice. And your idea that this is ‘curable’? Cool! If you could just direct us to this ‘cure’ you speak of, which you have obviously researched thoroughly, we’d greatly appreciate it! Because you obviously know more about this then we do.
Thanks!
Tora

My main concern is that some of us with BIID might start to think that transsexuals as a group are likely to be small minded bigots, based on some of the comments here. This is absolutely NOT the case. Thank you for backing me up on this, Tora.

YAY! We made it to 100. Thank you for such a fabulous post, Marie!

@Chloe WOW. 100 responses to a post. Amazing. I wonder how many of the people who are so rabidly against BIID have learned anything from this very good and long discussion.

@Sean- Probably none. People who hate something irrationally are rarely swayed by logic. Just look at the Fred Phelps and his inbred cult…

wat dus ta goalmean?

wat dus ta question mean?
We speak English here.

@Sad18 I have to support what Brice was saying. This site’s language is English. It is important to make sure we all use proper English, rather than “txt”. This is especially important because many of the visitors are not native English speakers, and would not be able to understand. Thank you for making the effort.

As somebody whose native language is NOT English, I should appreciate very much your not using abbreviations at all (with the exception of “BIID” and “GID” in this topic). For example “RL” – does it mean “real life” or what?

Something else: There’s an article in a scientific journal comparing BIID and GID:
“Clinical and Theoretical Parallels Between Desire for Limb Amputation and Gender Identity Disorder” by Anne A. Lawrence, M.D., Ph.D., published in: Archives of Sexual Behavior, Vol. 35, No. 3, June 2006, pp. 263–278 (DOI: 10.1007/s10508-006-9026-6).

There was a lecture on this comparison by T. O. Nieder from the University Clinic Hamburg-Eppendorf, Germany, on the 1st Frankfurt BIID Conference on March 6th in Frankfurt, Germany, which will be published in a book with the conference proceedings this autumn.

A researcher from the University of Graz, Austria, is working on the same topic, Prof. Dr. Roswith Roth.

There will be interesting new insights, I hope.

And that leads me to something I repeat on and on: PLEASE TAKE PART IN RESEARCH! All researchers say that they cannot find enough participants for their studies. We all want to know more about BIID, where it comes from and how it can be treated or how we can better cope with it. Even if the results will take more time and come too late for some of us ourselves, we can pave a better way for those coming after us, for the younger people with BIID.

Some addresses:
http://www.klinik.uni-frankfurt.de/zpsy/psychosomatik/pages/Mitarbeiter/stirn.htm (Dr. Aglaja Stirn, University of Frankfurt, Germany)
http://cbc.ucsd.edu/ramalab.html (Prof. Dr. V. S. Ramachandran, Dr. Paul McGeoch, David Brang, University of California)
http://www.maodes.de/erikasten/ (Prof. Dr. Erich Kasten, University of Lübeck, Germany)
http://www.neuroscience.ethz.ch/research/neural_basis/brugger_p (Dr. Peter Brugger, University Hospital of Zurich, Switzerland, other link: http://www.neurologie.unispital.ch/UeberUns/Kontakte/Abteilungen/Seiten/Neuropsychologie.aspx).

Thanks a lot!

It’s worth noting that the GID community generally has very bad impressions of Anne Lawrence and her theories.

Thanks, Sean, for this information. I didn’t want to take position towards the article, just wanted to give the details so that everybody who is interested can find the article and make his/her own picture of it. But it is really good to know that Ms Lawrence’s theories are disputed.

I forgot something very important for all who read this and have BIID – i.e. one of the most important researchers in the field of BIID:
Prof. Dr. Michael B. First, Columbia University, New York:
http://asp.cumc.columbia.edu/facdb/profile_list.asp?uni=mbf2&DepAffil=Psychiatry

If you can, please contact him and take part in his research. Yes, you!

@Phil, Yes, it’s very important to take part in Dr. First’s research. In fact, that’s the post for tomorrow :)

As one of the alleged “fringe ‘researchers’ with no credibility (who are intent on media attention and unable to produce real research)” I would like to say how much I appreciate the information that people who identify as having BIID have provided on this site, despite the fact that in doing so you clearly open yourselves to fairly constant (and extremely virulent) attack. As an academic working in what might be loosely called’ Body Modification Studies’ I think it is crucial that the relationship between what is described on this site as BIID, and other experiences of disjunction between self and body be explored as openly, and in as much detail as possible. At the same time, I understand that for a whole range of complicated historical and political reasons some people are loathe to, fearful of, or simply unable to do this – we all have our own limits, and this is inevitable, although,unfortunately often unhelpful, and damaging. Given that my own work is driven by the sort of commitment outlined above – and given the fact that so-called ‘scientific’ explanations can only ever offer, at best, partial answers (in my opinion) – there are a few questions that I’d like to put to those who regularly contribute to this site. While reading through all of the entries, I noticed that someone said that BIID is a term that refers to a wide range of desires for various bodily states (of ‘impairment’ – I hate this term). The list of examples of ‘disability’ (and this one!), included being HIV+ (I think it actually said AIDS). It also struck me that ‘obesity’ (I hate this one too!) has also been described by some as a ‘disability’. The thing is, there are obviously different social responses to different desires (and different modes of embodiment)- for example, in our culture, a desire for obesity would generally be understood as a contradiction in terms, as would a desire to be HIV positive (see the moral outrage re ‘bare backing’). The same could be said of a desire to be paraplegic. Deafness, it seems to me, is treated somewhat differently, and the deaf community’s sustained criticism of the generally held assumption that all deaf people should desire cochlear implants (where appropriate) may be of some assistance in developing an argument for access to surgery that would result in deafness. Similarly, I can see why it might be helpful to draw an analogy between so-called GID and BIID, but at the same time – and as many of the critics who have commented on this site have (perhaps inadvertantly) demonstrated – sex reassignment procedures produce bodies that are largely perceived as ‘normal’, whereas amputation, for example, produces bodies that are generally perceived as less-than-normal, and therefore, as, by definition, undesirable. So in one sense at least, the analogy doesn’t really work for those desiring access to the kinds of surgeries that are mentioned on this site. There are zillions of things I want to say, and to ask those of you who regularly contribute to the discussions here, but I’ll save them for another time, and finish by raising the question of whether, rather than trying to ally too closely BIID and GID, it might be more effective to develop comparative anlyses with other forms of embodiment as well. For example, why is it that short men can now be diagnosed as ‘suffering’ from Idiopathic Short Stature (ISS) and, as a result, be prescribed Human Growth Hormones, whereas people desiring, for example, an ALK amputation can’t get access to surgery, and are generally regarded as crazy. It’s not enough to say that this situation is inequitable. We have to think about why it is that we allow the former and not the latter, and how we might work to challenge the assumptions that inform both decisions. I realise that what I’m suggesting constitutes a long process, that won’t change the lives of people with BIID overnight. Given this, I think it is also necessary to fight on other levels at the same time – for example, to argue for the inclusion of BIID in the next DSM if this is what is deemed most appropriate (and I have to admit, I do have reservations about this as well as being able to see why it might be a good idea). I guess the argument reminds me of the kinds of debates that have taken place in grass roots feminist movements re things like “a women’s right to choose” – it seems to me that its possible to strategically support this right in the context of debates about access to abortion, legislation, medicare etc, whilst at the same time, in other (more ‘academic’) contexts to problematise the whole notion of rights.

@Nikki, thank you for your long comment and probing questions. I’ll probably have to write an actual post to respond to you, as the answer is likely to be longish, and somewhat getting away from the main “comparison between gid and biid”.

FWIW, I never considered you as a media hungry, fringe researcher lacking credibility. :) We don’t agree on all points, but that’s just making life interesting ;)

I’ve never really seen myself that way either, but its not a criticism that I’m unfamiliar with! Yes, I realise that my previous post was a bit of a rant – wanting to cover absolutely everything all at one, and not very well. And yes, it did get away from the BIID GID comparison. So, can I try to put my question more simply, and ask if people who identify as having BIID think that whilst it might be useful to draw on the kinds of arguments that trans people have made re their lived embodiment and their desire for/access to surgery, attempting to claim an analogical relation between the two is, ultimately, not going to produce the hoped-for results?
I also wanted to ask if anyone went to, or heard reports about, the BIID conference that was held in Frankfurt this year. Or is there another discussion board on which I should ask this question?

I believe claiming an analogical relation between the two is useful. It is the nearest, successful group to us. It can make the disorder easier to understand in the non-medical world. And after all it is not always and uniquely the medical profession that decides what should be done or not done.

Yes, I can see that the analogy appears to be useful given the successes achieved by and for trans people. I guess my concern is that running the same kind of argument won’t produce the same result because sex reassignment procedures tend, for the most part, to produce bodies that appear ‘normative’, whereas procedures which amputate, make deaf, or paraplegic, etc, produce bodies that in most people’s eyes, are ‘non-normative’ – that is, undesirable. I think this is an important difference and one that can’t BIID activists can’t afford to ignore – and in saying this I’m NOT suggesting that such perceptions are correct, or that I agree with them. But they are real, and they are incredibly powerful despite all the hard work that disability activists and scholars have put into challenging them.

It’s important to say in this context a body produced by “ability reassignment surgery” is normal in the eyes of the person undergoing the operation. The only judgement of “what is normal” that is truly relevant is one’s judgement about one’s self and one’s own body. This seems like a central point in the GID paradigm.

@Nobody. Very well stated. Thank you.

Thanks for the comment Nobody. I agree that what needs to be questioned here is the idea of a single notion of what is ‘normal’. Having been active in both feminist and GLBTQ politics, I agree that an individual’s sense of body/self should be respected and deferred to. However, this idea(l) often doesn’t translate in concrete terms. So, for example, people desiring access to hormones, or to trans surgeries have long had to express desires that appear ‘normal’ to gatekeepers. In an insightufl and really important article entitled “Mutilating Gender”, for example, Dean Spade describes in detial his failure (in the clinical context) to ‘pass’ as transsexual, and thus to qualify for the procedures he desires access to. Similarly, it seems to me that argueing for the individual’s right to bodily self-determination is not going to result in access to ability reassignment surgeries. And if it doesn’t, then we need to ask WHY it doesn’t, and to develop strategies that may prove to be more effective, don’t we?

To the comments of transsexuals being disabled. Transsexuals generally do not desire sterility, nor having to take hormones for the rest of our lives. But what is available is the closest we can get to our true sexes, and certainly better than nothing (well, for those who transition.) So transsexuals generally would prefer to just have been born in the correct sex with all related parts and general functions related to that sex.

@RandomFTM, people who have BIID would generally prefer to also have been born with the right body. Would certainly save us all a lot of anguish and money. As for transsexuals being disabled.. Regardless of whether or not you wish to be sterile, under American law, you are considered disabbled. There was a supreme court decision that specified that under the Americans with Disabilities Act, “reproduction” is an important part of one’s life, just like walking, seeing, hearing, etc, and if you aren’t able to reproduce, you meet the definition of a disability under the ADA. Just sayin’

That’s interesting, Sean. Does that mean all post-menopausal women are disabled?

Don’t ask me Chloe… Ask the US Supreme court ;)

Hi everyone. I’m fairly sure that I’m a male-to-female trans person, and what I’ve read on this page, has really been thought provoking.

When I first heard of there being such a thing as BIID, my initial reaction was “these people are crazy”. (Then again, that was before I even knew I was transgendered.) However, when I read the things you say about yourself now, I find your feelings very recognizable and legitimate, and indeed I see the clear parallels between it and my own “disorder” (which is a term I don’t like to use for it). Honesty, though, compels me to admit that I still have a bit of trouble with the idea of a person desiring to have their body permanently severely incapacitated (like, for instance, someone desiring to be a paraplegic).

More importantly, however, what really struck me was that the things I read here made me understand how many cisgendered people feel about transgendered people, and understand why they feel that way. Consequently, I realize that I must abolish my problems with BIID, because just because someone who “doesn’t have it” finds it hard to imagine, doesn’t make it any less valid, same as with GID.

As kind of an added bonus, I guess, it also validates my feelings regarding for example my internal conflict with those (like my mother) who claim I “think I’m transgendered because I read stuff transgendered people wrote on the internet”. When I read your writings about BIID, they strike absolutely no chord in me that makes me feel like this is something that could be the matter with me, very unlike when I first read the writings of transgendered people.

So, yeah, I can say with a fair amount of confidence now that I definitely don’t have BIID, but I definitely do have GID. For this, thank you.

Jacqui’s thoughtful message certainly strikes a chord with me. I am inequivocally male, really don’t understand GID but have to accept its reality — why would those who have it put up with so much crap if it weren’t real. It’s good to know at least one GID person is willing to see it our way as well. Thanks, Jacqui.

Brice- I realize that most transabled people are alright with calling their situation BIID, but many trans people don’t feel the same about GID. My gender is no more disordered than yours is, and haivng it referred to as one is pretty aggravating.

Thanks
-Z

@Z, I understand where you come from being aggravated by having your gender called “disordered”. Trust me, I don’t like the concept of disorder. But I see that as a relatively painless way to get towards surgery. I honestly don’t believe that surgery for BIID will happen unless it is seen as a disorder. By the same token, how many transsexuals would be able to get surgery funded by health insurance or NHS or other like services if it were NOT listed as a disorder? Sure, there were SRS surgeries before GID went into the DSM, but I would be highly surprised if it ever became widely available, and even more suprised if it was funded by health insurance, be they private or governmental.

My 2 cents

GRS is NOT funded by insurance. NHS in some countries? Yes. Insurance? Certainly not in the US! It’s touch-and-go if they’ll even pay for hormones or the therapy. You may be able to get hysterectomy/orchiectomy covered, but certainly not GRS.

Gender Incongruence, the proposed change to the DSM-V that will hopefully take place is better- and doesn’t have the same implications. Gender Dysphoria also doesn’t have nearly as negative connotations. There are plenty of ways to refer to transsexualism that keeps it in the DSM and that does NOT call our gender disordered.
Also, GID limits who is and isn’t allowed to get surgery. It sets up an abusive situation where therapists have far more control than they should and trans people are often forced to uphold ridiculous standards of masculinity/femininity that no one would ever dream of pushing on a cis person. Maybe it’s a stepping stone- but that’s ALL it is. A stepping stone. And one that’s starting to crumble and needs to be replaced.

I don’t see how GID helping to reinforce abusive systems that can be extremely damaging to trans people just to get the treatment they need makes it any more acceptable to refer to a transsexual person as a “GID person” or makes it so that we have to accept having our gender called disordered.

There can be a lot of emotion attached to labels. I wonder why I am so inconsistent in this. I don’t seem to have any problem with BIID or OCD, for example. Yet the most recent nomenclature for intersex conditions, “Disorders of Sexual Development”, I find utterly offensive. This is a big step backwards. Intersex conditions are a normal part of human variation. How is that a disorder? To me, “Hermaphrodite” sounds so much more genteel.

My gender is not disordered either. I have the impression that some of these so-called disorders were named as such by people following the logic “You are different from me; therefore you must be disordered.”

The use of BIID nomenclature may be no more than a stepping stone. If so then so be it. We should learn from the experience of trans people and work to prevent it from becoming abusive. A long time ago I was told by a psychiatrist “You can’t be a woman because that would make you a lesbian” and “If you were a woman you’d be wearing a dress.” I’m wearing shorts right now. How very manly of me! It’s like saying “People with paraplegia can’t ski.”

@Jacqui: Thank you for your comment, and please don’t be put off by our discussion of nomenclature. I would welcome any further insights you may have as you proceed on your journey.

@Z, not to argue the toss, but I personally know two people, in the US, who underwent SRS/GRS, paid for by their health insurance. Granted the majority do not, but it *is* there.

Whereas… People needing surgery for BIID can’t even find a surgeon to do the procedure…

I understand your anger, but please don’t blast it at us. We’ve not done anything to you. And, hard as it might be to imagine, we are in many ways in worst shite than you are.

Hi Gordo,

I read “The Alchemist” last year, and loved it. It has long fascinated me that what is considered a mental illness in one society is considered normal in another, and vice versa. I’m not questioning the concept of mental illness. However it is somtimes abused as a political tool to marginalise those who are different.

A lot of religions, institutions and professions (e.g. medical and psychological ones) make their living from this circle:

First they define what is healthy, normal and good.
Then they discriminate everybody who doesn’t fit in.
Then they offer these minorities help, therapy, redemption etc.

And often they are not even aware of what they are doing.

So right, Phil. It is within living memory that homosexuality was a sin, a mental illness, and illegal, all at the same time.

I didn’t “blast my anger” at Brice, I politely asked him not to refer to trans people as “GID people”.

You then implied that I wasn’t allowed to have preferences about how I’m referred to because “GID has helped people!”. So what? I still don’t like my gender being called a disorder and I have EXTREME problems with someone telling me that my preferences in how I am referred to aren’t worth being respected.
I didn’t “blast my anger” at a plural “you”- I “blasted my anger” at a singular “thee”, Sean. Get the facts straight.

First: Get them straight with that “us and them” attitude in which “I” am placed in “them”. Did you forget that I tried to become a contributor because I am transabled- or did you decide that the posts I offered aren’t “transabled enough” so I don’t count without telling me?
And, also, don’t forget my gender. Non-binary people are in the same boat as people with BIID- we aren’t acknowledged by the DSM, we aren’t allowed to get surgery or hormones or any treatment unless we lie about it (and sometimes what we want is such that lying isn’t an option). I know ONE person who transitioned to non-binary and that person is in the UK and it was NOT covered by NHS.
I have had NO benefit from making “GID” a disorder, and I don’t really care if anyone else had.

And my gender is not a disorder.
Oh, also, this IS me “blasting my anger”.

@Z: That is a really excellent point about non-binary people being in the same boat as people with BIID.

At the time I was contemplating genital surgery, I considered myself to be an exclusive lesbian. Consequently, it had entered my mind that I didn’t really need a functional vagina. The surgery to give me the outward appearance of typical female genitalia would have been far easier than creating a vagina in addition. I lacked the advantage an MtF has of being suitable for a standard penile inversion, and I was very resistant to the idea of thigh/buttock grafts.

When I put this idea by the relevant health care professionals, I was treated like I must be from another planet and told that no surgeon would consider such a thing. A woman without a vagina! What blasphemy! By definition, a woman must want a man’s penis inside her vagina. Apparently I had stepped outside of what is acceptable for the socially constructed gender binary system.

Everything turned out just fine. I am happy with my vagina. A wheelchair unexpectedly shifted my sexual orientation, and I’ve had a boyfriend for the last eighteen months. A vagina comes in handy. But this is not the point. I simply wasn’t given the option of choosing any surgery other than to have standard female genitalia. If I can legitimately be an ItF, then why do people throw up their hands in horror at the idea of an FtI (female to intersex)?

@Chloe- I definitely see what you’re saying, but the terminology of -t-I makes me uncomfortable because trans people have, unfortunately, been guilty of trying to appropriate intersex identities, ignoring the pain that non-consensual surgery, and some have even mistreated them because they’re intersex (“You have a REASON to be a woman, so you OWE the rest of us!”). So the idea of transitioning “to intersex” seems like it might not be a great concept just now. I think, as intersex rights make headway and people know what they are (and the trans community gets its butt in gear), that might work later- but right now I don’t really know if I like the idea of calling transitions beyond M/F “-t-I”.

I agree, though, about the doctors. It also points out the stigma on intersex bodies and anyone who doesn’t neatly fit into “male” or “female”- it’s fine to have/desire a “normal” male or female body and it’s even fine to force one on a person (and I know some intersexed people have been misled by doctors into getting “normalization” surgery that they didn’t want), but wanting one that is outside the bounds of “normal” is UNTHINKABLE!

One problem I have with the concept of starting T is that it’d make “certain areas” grow, and I just don’t want that- so I’d need it cut back to size. I told a gender therapist this and he called my gender a pathology caused by (non-existent) “trauma”.

Honestly, most “gender therapists” are incredibly cissexist. I’ve seen too many have this idea of “I’ll only accept that you’re a wo/man if you fit MY definition of what a wo/man is”.

Hi Z. I did not mean to imply that you identify as -t-I, nor that it should be accepted as standard nomenclature. However, I have friends who do identify thusly, and I generally have no problem with people self identifiying as they please. This includes trans people who identify as a subset of intersexed. I have worked at the local level to integrate the intersex and trans communities. I believe we have a great deal more in common than what separates us. I was succesful in gaining a consensus at a general LGBT meeting for anyone with gender issues. Trans people are to be welcome at intersex meetings, and vice versa. Indeed, some trans people attend the intersex support group and I fully encourage that. This is coming from someone whose female intersexed partner, Alicia, did have non-consensual surgery. It was only a couple of years ago I found out by reading my mother’s diaries that such surgery had been contemplated for myself when I was a baby. I narrowly escaped that misfortune.

The psychotherapist who runs the intersex support group here is an unusual exception to the cissexism that generally runs rampant among cis people. It probably helps that a significant number of intersex people have no desire to be categorised as either male or female. Indeed, I refused to be so categorised on the recent census.

Some readers here may not have understood the meaning of “T”, so I’ll just add that it is the common abreviation for testosterone.

It pains and angers me for your gender to be pathologised. As if a gender could possibly be a pathology!

By the way I only recently caught on about the moniker “Z” (I can be a bit slow). It is both clever and cool!

Chloe- I knew someone who did identify as -t-I, and I don’t believe that person actually knew anything about intersex conditions, their ideal body is what the term “hermaphrodite” makes most people think of (“both sets of toolboxes” as Colbert put it)- so I don’t know if calling that “intersex” is right or not. I knew someone else, a trans woman, who said her ideal body is that of a cAIS woman- but I don’t think saying she’s -t-I would be right because she still responds to androgens.
I generally dislike policing self-identifying, but I will mention if it seems like they’re misrepresenting the identity (ex. People who are sexually attracted to [genders/sexes] but celibate so they call themselves asexual because they don’t think anyone DOESN’T experience sexual attraction- this always bothers me because it erases people who *don’t* experience sexual attraction by using that identity).

I also would love to see the trans and intersex communities allied with each other- I think they would be wonderful allies because they’re saying a LOT of the same things just from different directions. I think it’s wonderful that you’ve been working for that- I don’t really know how to, personally. Do you know of any online intersex resources that are trans friendly? I haven’t found many. I’m not intersexed myself (REALLY unlikely), but it is possible my partner might be and I’d really like to learn more about it- but the only community online I’ve found wasn’t the nicest toward trans people and I felt kind of unwelcome there (one person actually PMd me telling me that they didn’t want me saying anything on the forum).

That’s great about your therapist- I do know there are therapists who aren’t as bad about it (although finding them has been a trick). I wish more therapists, especially gender therapists, were more open. Okay, so it’d be great if ALL people were more open and less -ist, but therapists really should be.

And thanks for clearing up the abbreviation- I’m used to using it, and forgot that some people might not know.

The therapist angered me as well- I’d went to lengths before we started sessions to make it clear that I wasn’t a man or a woman to make sure that wasn’t a problem.

What do you mean about the moniker? It’s just the first letter of my (now) legal name and I just think ‘z’ is a cool letter. (My biggest gripe about british spelling is how little it uses zed.)

Hi Z. I had wrongly guessed that you were using “Z” because it is homophonous with the gender neutral pronoun alternatively spelled zhe, ze or zie. I had also wondered whether you might prefer to be considered XZ, rather than XX or XY, as a nomenclature to leave the second sex chromosome unspecified. This would avoid confusion with the intersex condition X0 (Turner’s Syndrome).

As you probably know, it is far more common for hermaphrodites to have neither set of toolboxes fully equipped, rather than both. That more realistic prospect is probably a little less attractive to most people.

I wonder if the trans woman you knew simply desired the hyperfeminized body type considered typical of people with CAIS: tall, large breasts, small waist to hip ratio, and minimal body hair.

It’s not trivially easy to make a determination of whether someone is or is not intersexed. The reason, as frequently pointed out by my psychotherapist, is that “intersex” comprises a spectrum of possibilities rather than discrete entities. Examples of this are PAIS (partial androgen insensitivity syndrome), CAH (congenital adrenal hyperplasia), and some mosaicisms. In all of these cases the genitalia may appear typically male, typically female, or anything in between. It makes me wonder if BIID also comprises a spectrum of possibilities rather than a discrete entity.

I rescinded my membership in ISNA (Intersex Society of North America) primarily for their support of the nomenclature “Disorders of Sexual Development”. However, I also found their evident transphobia offensive. You are right. Many intersex communities are not trans friendly. I can only apologize on their behalf. To me it is as ridiculous as a trans person who is not BIID friendly.

Please don’t shout at me, but in my eyes this is a language in which no real person can talk. CAIS, PAIS, -t-I, cis and trans and whatnot.

I understand that you need words to say who you are and how you feel. But couldn’t these words be short and easy to comprehend?

For example, people tried to name themselves “homophil” in Germany, because it was not about sexuality, but love (and those who know Ancient Greek understand that a philia is a form of real love; the word has just been misused by psychologists and such). Nobody uses homosexual, Urning, homophil or anything else. We say “schwul” which is something like queer or gay.

“The short words are best, and the old words are the best of all.” Winston Churchill (literature nobel prize 1953).

And if there are no good words, try to invent some which are short, no acronyms and lots of – - -…

In old German we have the word “Zwitter” for hermaphrodite. It comes from “zwei” or “zwi” (= two). Two is better than one, most people would understand that.

BIID is an acronym, too. But I would prefer a short word for it. Transabled is a first step. Has anybody got an idea what word we could use or invent?

I want my legs to be shorter, well, not only shorter. So I’m a shortie. Wantshort. Legsoffie. Thigh-stump-needer.

Or a limo, a less-is-morie…

Just kidding.

And in the end I am I. Hopefully. :-) No words can describe this mess.

Dear PhilDAK, I don’t recall claiming that I am a real person. In truth, like many others, I am an automaton deposited on this planet by aliens in order to drive the few remaining earthlings insane.

Chloe- I actually wondered what would happen if someone were to have an XV chromosome rather than XY or have half a leg so it’s a cross between X and Y (before I knew about intersex conditions- I don’t think it’s possible). But, no, that’s not what the letter means. :) That’s a pretty cool coincidence, though!

I do know that- which is part of why I don’t know how to feel when people say they want the body of a “hermaphrodite” or “intersex” to mean having both. That’s not accurate. I do know that some people can have half of each (in the case of XX/XY mosaicism, I believe) but it doesn’t always happen, and it’s not the same thing. As for the woman, I her reasoning was that her ideal body was “Genetically XY, nonfunctional internal testis, no uterus or ovaries, dependent on estrogen treatments to maintain bone density and highly feminized external structure”- so basically, yeah.

I think everything is a spectrum of possibilities. BIID, I’d argue that people who want amputations vs paralysis vs sensory impairment would probably be considered different possibilities- they all need different treatment to succeed and result in different problems in modern society.

I noticed that with ISNA as well- I found their logic for assigning children male and female to be problematic and cissexist. The idea that not raising a kid specifically as either sex must mean you’re raising them as a “third” sex is, well, wrong. Doing that is a bad idea- but raising a child to be able to choose what they want to play with and how they want to be referred to? I don’t see the harm no matter WHAT sex the kid is. The kid will be exposed to enough gender cues and roles every day that they’ll figure out where they fit even without being shoved into a box.

Phil- The problem is that you’re unfamiliar with the terminology, not that they’re inherently hard to understand. It’s true of anything. Is webhosting something no person can use because it goes on about PHP and SQL and “A” and NS and IP and URI? What about forums, are they unusable due to the BBS, PM and OP? Are texts indecipherable because of BBL and JK and TTYL and AFK? No, it just takes a bit to get used to. It’s the same with trans & intersex lingo.

(Also, Chloe, shh! You can’t reveal our plot! It’ll ruin the mission!)

As the “thee” in question, was or was not anger blasted?

Brice- you are not the “thee” in question, *Sean* is.

Hi Z,

I have been working in research and social science. There’s a lot of jargon there. Some of these words are useful. Most are just concepts which don’t relate much to realities. No problem when they are used in science. But they are not necessary and often not helpful at all in real life. It excludes a lot of people from participating.

I am able to write in forums, even to moderate one without understanding all the acronyms you mentioned. When I talk to people I prefer talking in the language we all share.

And for me language is not just an instrument, it is much more.

Of course, that’s just my personal view, and I think I’m not expected to contribute to your discussion.

The other problem is that I am German. We have a different language with different acronyms.

Phil- then you should really get this.

If I walked into a social science discussion and demanded that they stop using terminology that I was unfamiliar with, I’d be laughed out.

You can’t walk into a conversation about trans and intersexed issues without using the language pertaining to trans and intersexed people. And you really can’t say that our language doesn’t “relate to reality”- IT IS BASED ON OUR REALITIES. (or what medical professionals think our realities should be described as).

And, either way, Phil is right that this isn’t the best place for in depth conversations about things not pertaining to transabled people.

Chloe- I enjoyed talking to you about this. If you want to finish the conversation, we should probably do it over email. Here’s mine: [email protected]

i am so pleased i came across this article i am transexual and i need to be a dak amputee it is so confusing having all of these thoughts i dont know where to turn for help

Hi Z,

1) This is not a social science website. This is not a science website at all. This is meant to be comprehensible for everybody.

2) I don’t fear to be laughed at.

3) My inner reality cannot be described in acronyms of latin and greek words. That’s why I said that these don’t point at realities, but at concepts in the mind.

4) If somebody stepped into a social science discussion and asked me to use everyday language, I would try to.

Regards
Phil

In regards to Claire’s comment about researchers not being able to find enough subjects.

One dilemma I’m inclined to believe in is that they are not well publicized in advance.

For instance, I’m now just finding out about some that are a few years old, and they come with sparse details about how to get involved.

Whether, this be from time losing the details, or the details not being well described. I haven’t been able to find out which.

This is not from a lack of trying for trying to find the details out, or finding the studies wanting to be carried out during it’s relative time period.

@David K – publicising studies is always a bit tricky, indeed. And one might argue that the quality/results of the study is highly dependent on who “just happens” to find the announcement for the study. Every time I hear of one, I give out details. But they also have to be serious because so many so-called researchers aren’t going to get anywhere. *shrug*

I want to readdress the point about weather or not transabe surgeries would effect others. However, I’d like to give some background on myself, I am ADD/LD. I just finished writing my boy freind about how I find his attempts to convince me that I am not disabled, because I am a compliant highly functioning person, well intended, but offensive. I had explained to him that even if someone took away my ADD/LD symptoms, being disabled would still help shape my identity. So I am trying to relate to transablism thorough that lens. I definitely know what it feels like to have a disability on the inside and wish that you could somehow make it viable to others. All though I appreciate the ways it is easier for me than say for someone with a physical disability to pass as normal in situations like job interviews.

A few years ago I started medicating my ADD and there were some things that really changed about the way I interacted with the world and thought. At first this was really disturbing to me, because I wasn’t familiar with it. However, I found that I was able to things I cared about better. In that sense if I can become less disabled it only seems fair that you can become more disabled.

That said, I don’t have issues related to physical medical costs and I know my disability effects others. When you live in societies as large as the ones we live in it is cumbersome and expensive to set up separate systems for a certain subset of people. Often, it is not nearly as cumbersome and expensive as administrative people often think it is, but it does effect people. I think it benefits those of us with disabilities to be empathetic of the effects our disabilities have on others, because it makes us better at helping others understand the effects their decisions have on us.

Likewise, I think it benefits us to work to minimize the effects our disabilities have on others, because it minimizes the time we have to spend justifying ourselves. In an ideal world it would be great if we could support everyone, for what ever reason. However, we live in a world with limited resources and if you have to choose between long term care for a transabled person and someone with an existing physical disability, only the latter makes sense pragmatically. This is why, with respect to point 6, I think standards of care should include being able to support ones self financially. Unless you are independently wealthy disabilities like full body paralysis would make this more difficult. In general, just having a disability, irreverent of your actual disabilities, makes this more difficult.

I don’t know if it is just the commenters on this post or what, but are there a lot of people with transgender/transexual/GID who also have BIID? It just seems like the same people have both from a lot of these comments.

@Maya, I don’t think that there is necessarily a larger proportion of people who have BIID that have GID as well. It just so happens that this topic interests more people who have GID, hence attracting a larger segment of that population to be active.

There does seem to be a parallel between GID and BIID, but it’s mutually independent. What I have also seen is a great many BIID sufferers with German heritage. The majority of my sexual encounters were homosexual, but not exclusively so- and I’m pleased with my gender.

@Maya: According to VS Ramachandran, the brain has four identity regions. Two on each hemisphere, one for body identity and one for sexual identity. GIID is a disorder of the sexual identity region and BIID is a disorder of the body identity region. The disorders are very similar in nature and not exclusive, you can have one or both depending on the regions of the brain affected. A discrepancy in any of the four regions results in a disturbance in how one perceives ones body. As a result, I would assume the percentage of people with BIID that also have GIID would the be same as the general population.

http://healthland.time.com/2011/02/02/mind-reading-neuroscientist-v-s-ramachandran-on-unlearning-pain/

@Mark: There does seem to be a pattern and the founder affect might be a factor. I’m of German descent and I see BIID like traits in my mother, the German side of my ancestry. But it could also just be that people of German descent are more likely to be open about it due to cultural factors.

@Xavier:
How do you see BIID traits in your mother? How does it show?

@Phil: She used to wrap her legs in elastic bandages as a kid and has been wearing the tightest compression hose she could find daily since she was eight. She’s also avoided activities that require extensive use of them and intentionally avoided jobs that would require her to be on her feet. I could go on and on about the similarities in our feelings, behavior, thoughts and relationship with our legs. Let’s just say, the similarities are freaky and it’s hard to deny the possibility of a correlation. The only difference I see is that I have a more unusual and acute form and the desire to eliminate them. If I had to guess, if it had manifested as BIID in her, she’d be a DBK.

I wonder if it means anything that, besides my legs, I also used to wrap my head in elastic bandages when I was a kid. ROFL!!!

After reading a lot on this site and some other sites about BIID I thougt I “understood” more or less this phenomenon. At first I was amazed but now, after some articles about it, I can at least understand that people want an amputation of a limb or paralysis due to a neurological disfunctioning in the brain.
What I don’t understand is what was written in this post, namely: “Any disability may be substituted in for paralysis such as blindness, amputee, deafness, ceberal palsy, AIDS, and so on.” Especially the fact that there is referred to AIDS. How could you ever explain a desire for AIDS to be a neurological disorder??? After reading this I had something like: “ok, this is madness, people who suffer from this have something that cannot be compared to people that need to lose a limb because of a problem with their right parietal lobe.” (I assumed off course that by AIDS the person meant HIV+.)

Could someone clear this out for me please? I totally understand that you – sufferers of BIID – want to be recognised and respected but if you make statements like this (“needing to have AIDS”) then, for me, this lowers your credibility! I’m looking forward to a clear explanation of this statement. And if I made a wrong interpretation of this statement then I apologise for that!

@B the need to have AIDS is not, AFAIK, falling under the BIID “diagnostic” – such as it is. There *are* people who want AIDS. I have never interacted with any of them. I don’t believe they consider themselves transabled, either. But I’m careful to reject things out of hands just because I don’t understand them. Until *very* recently, the need to have paralysis was not recognised as falling under the BIID umbrella. Now it is.

Just a correction, Sean – I believe you mean you’re careful *not* to reject things out of hand just because you don’t understand them. :)

On AIDS – as the current definition of BIID stands, that one’s body image does not match one’s physical body, I don’t believe people who need AIDS are *technically* BIID sufferers, because as far as I know it does not alter body map. However, if BIID can extend to needing to feel certain symptoms or not having certain organs functioning properly, that opens up a whole new world.

@Sean: How do you know that there are people who want AIDS if you never interacted with them?
As long as there is not one clue that these people (who want AIDS) are not just completely psychotic or something like that, this phenomenon should – in my opinion – not be mentioned on this site, because that way it only reduces the credibility of this site. This site makes it understandable that people with (amputee or paralysis) BIID are not just psychotic or want attention or something like that. But when you read suggestions on this site that it can be compared to people who want AIDS and there are no arguments to back that statement up, then this is indeed not good for the credibility of this site. This only produces doubt and confusion.

@B: They’re called “bug chasers”.

http://voices.yahoo.com/bug-chasing-why-some-men-want-become-hiv-positive-10487.html

Thank you Mark for the information in the link.
Isn’t it clear (after having read the article in Mark’s link) that wanting to have AIDS is really something totally different from BIID? Isn’t it clear that these people – if they want to- can perfectly get helped through psychotherapy and perhaps medication? With the information that came to me now I’m still convinced that Marie’s statement(“A transabled person is in a similar position. For example a person may have an identity of someone that is paralysed but is not actually paralysed. Any disability may be substituted in for paralysis such as blindness, amputee, deafness, ceberal palsy, AIDS, and so on.”) is an incorrect statement.
Any thoughts on this?

In my opinion it is very important for the BIID community to be able to make a clear distinction between people for whom achieving the desired disability seems -for now at least- the only solution and people for whom achieving the desired disability would not be such a very clever idea (if their goal is achieving happiness on the long term)!
If the BIID community doesn’t succeed in clearly making this distinction then – in my opinion – it will never be truly taken seriously by other people.
BIID is very difficult to understand for people who don’t have it, so every statement that creates confusion should – in my opinion – be avoided or further explained.

I found your blog article today, and started a conversation about it on Facebook that quickly turned into blog-length analysis of some of the ideas you’ve presented here. I am a disabled trans person who has persistent thoughts of removing a single segment of one of my fingers.

As such, I posted a 1500-word response at the following URL:
http://haifischgeweint.wordpress.com/2012/03/13/transableism/

If you’re interested in reading it, I hope it would help you understand another perspective. Perhaps it would help you find another means to express your ideas as well. Maybe I could learn something from you if you provide feedback. Or maybe we just have different ideas.

Thanks.

Quote kayla: “Even in the cases where the financial cost of treating BIID properly clearly outweighs the financial cost of withholding such treatment, there is the matter of quality of life to be considered. It leads down a dangerous path if we begin denying effective treatments to provide quality of life for patients simply on the basis of financial cost.”

This, to me, is a rather selfish statement. No one owes you (or me for that matter) a better quality of life. To ask others to pay for the results of a treatment that others consider a great burden (or adjustment, meaning they are in that position because of an unwanted accident) that leads to depression and a whole lot of psychological and life changes, is very selfish. And deprives others, who really need it, of the benefits. This “treatment” would be considered by most to be frivolous as there are people out there, who would never have wished for such a state but now have to adjust to their new lives. Also because there are many other pressing matters in this life to deal with. Like curing cancer.

Also, i don’t believe that the people who would have to foot the bill would appreciate you throwing their money around like that.

But if all the expenses incurred are paid fully and completely by the individual, for now and forever, then… Live and Let Live. But don’t expect a whole lot of understanding. It’s a very strange state of mind. And might be viewed as an indulgent one.

I have to say that i will include no disclaimers in my comment, such as “while I applaud your efforts” and “i can understand some of the discussed aspects very well” (quotes taken out of context) because I have something to say and I don’t want to diminish it by coddling, or kissing up to everyone here. I am posting because I have this objection. Whether it is dismissed or even deleted I will soon find out. But I hope more for an honest response because I am not here to cause trouble.

By the number of transgendered/sexual people in here (people who have had surgery to change their sex, these words confuse me, and so do the acronyms) there should be a lot of happy individuals walking around. After all they now have a body to suit their mind.

But they are STILL not happy! Now they want a disability! See, this is why surgery is dangerous. It doesn’t always address the problem. (If the problem was unhappiness with a sex assignment at birth the problem should be solved) This is why people question the state of mind of TG and now transabled people. You can keep giving them what they want but will they be happy?

Surely someone here can see this point as being an important one. It can happen with plastic surgery for crying out loud. Look at Joan Rivers! She had one surgery that i’m sure she thought would fix her, then she wanted another and another. She was happy for awhile until she realized she wanted a different look.

It’s a case of getting what they wanted, then deciding they wanted more. It’s a very human thing. People must be able to see how that can make others questions your intentions when you say “my life will be complete and perfect if you just give me this one thing…”

@Melanie, I take your point about “wanting more”. However, the thing is, transsexuality and transability are two distinct “conditions”. It just so happens that sometimes people have both at the same time. Gender reassignment surgery just will not help with BIID.

@Melanie and Sean: Now wait a minute- that’s three different things you’re talking about. TransGender, TransAble, and “facial re-arrangement” have nothing to do with each other!

Joan Rivers??? You should have said Michael Jackson- OY! Now HE was a surgery junkie!

@Melanie: I never expected my life to be complete and perfect after I had genital rearrangement surgery, but it is a HECK of a lot better. I do not expect my life to be complete and perfect after ability reassignment surgery, but I expect it to be a HECK of a lot better.

My expectations are entirely grounded in the realities of prior experience.

I don’t pretend to understand BIID, but then I dont have to. I do understand opression and the need to feel happy in yourself. As a woman who was born trans-sexed I know the feeling of acheiving physical congruence and I wish you all success in your struggle for recognition and treatment you feel that you need. I fear however that you are in for a rough time ahead as a group. You are already being used as a straw man argument to deny legitimacy of transsexual/transgender men and women by certain transphobic elements. This I find offensive because seeks to deny both groups of people legitimacy and the right to pursue our own different paths to happiness and acceptance.

the posts and responses interesed me. I agree the both transgender and transable (ism) are similar. this is due mainly owing to the fact that both represent body disphoria. Perhaps that is the key. it is unfortunate that the medical community doesn’t recognize transablism as disphoria. if hey did, maybe there’d be a protocol of standard of care for us as well! I sent a post/comment a few days ago saying that my BIID/transablism had changed. The rpoblem I am having is that which I imagine many transgendered people also have. All the pretending in the world won’t change the fact tht zI am not a paraplegic. I can pretend and the world can see me that way – which for a while was very satisfying. But I know I am not paralyzed. Pretending/passing is not satisfying, because inside I know what I am and am not. I think this experience is shared by our transgendered friends. I don’t know how to affect the change that needs to happen. I do know, however, that a change does need to happen. Maybe we need a transabled version of Christine Jorgensen to begin a ball rolling??? I am tired of being told, “Take these pills and you’ll fee better!”

At the intersex support group last week, one of the psychotherapists threw out a question to us all: “Which of you feel that your gender issues are completely resolved, and when did that occur?” The answers were unambiguous. 100% of us who have had genital surgery said that the issues are resolved. Almost 100% of us who have not had genital surgery said that the issues are not resolved. For those of us who have had genital surgery, 100% of us said that the psychological change happened immediately after surgery. I see the same general pattern also with my transsexual friends.

After my first genital surgery I was a week or so in the hospital and then another couple of weeks in a nearby hotel. For the first week in the hotel I still had a catheter and was advised to stay in bed and move my lower body as little as possible. After the catheter was removed, I got up to go pee for the first time. I saw myself naked in the full length mirror and wept with joy. Decades of emotional pain from living in the wrong body were swept away forever.

My body is still wrong from BIID of course. But it feels VERY much like being intersexed. A wheelchair helps a lot. However my previous first hand experience tells me that this will not go away until I have surgery, and also that surgery WILL fix it.

The analogy is indeed strong. Just as people don’t know whether someone using a wheelchair is or is not paralyzed, they also can not tell from their gender presentation what is the nature of their genitalia. In both cases the need for surgery is not a function of other people’s perceptions.

hi chloe, i just read your comment and it makes me feel so much more normal now i thought i was some some sort of freak being intersexed and having biid as if one wasnt enough,but to know more than one part of your body is wrong.thanks for making me feel better about it.

Hi Neil. I certainly relate to feeling like a freak. However, I have come to realise that EVERYBODY is different. For me it feels much better to be completely open about all of my differences. I hope eventually it will be common knowledge that different is beautiful, different is good, different is normal.

With hindsight I believe the double whammy of intersexed and BIID is an advantage. Everything I learnt from dealing with being intersexed has increased my confidence in regard to handling BIID.

And thank you. It is comforting for me to know of others out there who are both intersexed and have BIID.

Hoping to hear more from you about your perspectives.

All best wishes,

~ Chloe